Haxus, this is a big message for you that took ages to write, so we could give our view of the current state of the game. I guess it's kinda a mirror of Yetimal's post 5 years ago on the gravity well forums, that brought back the game (I hope you remember!).  :P

Like 5 years ago, first a disclaimer: as english isn't our native language, it's possible we may sound arrogant or insulting, but keep in mind that's not the idea behind this post. On the contrary, the idea, like 5 years ago, is to tell you the shocking truth, so things may improve. So yes this post won't be pleasant, of that we can guarantee you. But keep in mind while reading this that all hope is >not< lost, do not drop everything now. Because indeed, we're not happy at all about what is happening and becoming of this game, but we want your success above all. It's still your game obviously, so you can completly ignore what's following, we won't really care. Also that may only be our truth and maybe it's not shared by the community, but our guess is it's mainly shared... edit: This appeared soon after this post, I guess it's no coïncidence.

Also keep in mind we, the French Empire, are the last big empire that played through 9 years (though most of us came in 2013, a few like me are from 2011). (We are playing as "Galactic Republic of Champagne" this universe). We have seen many things and we keep exploring part of the gameplay that one-man empires don't. We'll start with an advice about just that: be wary of yes-men that agree with everything you say and do. You need critics. You need people telling you that you do shit when it happens. Of course those people need to do that properly without insults and in a constructive way. But I fear that's one of the main reasons the game is at its current state: people wanting to help, wanting to be nice, but actually destroying everything that made this game.. fun.

Community

So first, let's talk about the community, because I'm sure it's the best indicator of what's happening. Look at how many people are currently playing these days.. Only 2 months and a half after restart! And look at how many came back for the reset of U6 : roughly 30 to 40 actives (with by the way, more than 10 solely in FE might I point out). I heard back then some new people from U5 saying "wow that's epic, 30 people online!". When I clearly remember more than 80 actives on U4 restart, and I guess around 50-60 in U5 restart when the game required to pay. That's a shame. But that's also a good indicator of what's happening: this game is breaking apart and loosing everyone's interest. This, is the hard truth part. You can also compare that with the number of people that are registered in these forums. Or with the fact we're still first on the ranking when none of us has played seriously for at least 7 weeks. This game is a MMO. And a special MMO at that: everything is built by players. Without players there's nothing. Indeed, there's no PvE to speak of (unless you count killing other players empire's troops.. But they're still created by players). So the community shrinking means the game is basically.. disapearing.

There are a few reasons for that we think. For starters, the main problem is that there's no new players really, this thread may be a good start to know why.. Another, big one: you have a certain tendancy to refactor everything that worked previously, and quite a few times implement the new functionalities poorly with massive bugs. I guess what happened this last 2 months is also a good example. I mean, I'm also a developer so I know a bit of these things, but we can mostly inspire ourselves from success stories of one-man games, like Minecraft or RimWorld. True those games aren't MMOs. But that isn't the excuse for everything.

Development quality & testing

For starters, you have to really get better at testing, and the first thing to do right now may be to create yourself a real testing environement, like everyone else does on "state of the art" development nowadays. Why? Because we're not beta testers. We agree to test and report bugs for a bit, but not while paying and above all not when we can't play at all for more than an entire month, because that's what happened. First massive limbos, then your breaking of the game with Etherium. Yes you have absolutely the right to make bugs. Yes, those can pass through your testing and get to production, that happens to everyone. But there is a point when too many bugs destroys your user's faith in you. And your users are your customers... If you make big, huge changes to the codebase, you have to test those, for a month if need be, before even thinking of putting this online.

I don't understand what is the problem with creating a test server, a real one where everythings works as in SoH. You should be able to copy data from the game when you want. You could make this available for everyone to use for free if you really want us to help test everything, and I'm sure many here would love to do that. Keep in mind your community is mostly composed of hardcore gamers, because that's what it takes to play SoH, and it has its advantages: people want to help.

And please, please dammit, put HTTPS on your website... HTTP nowadays is lame, people are getting warnings everywhere that this website is not secure. The website is lame as a whole and it does everything it can to drive away potential new players. Your website is your "first door", it's where you should put your best efforts.. Hire someone if you're not comfortable with HTML or ask the community for help I don't know, just do something! When you know what you're doing, enabling HTTPS takes 5 minutes and for free, this should tell you if you should put your hands on that or not. Again, your community is composed of many developers who will love to help you in anyway they can. The only thing you need is to trust us, because if I remember correctly that was the main concern keeping us from helping you. I mean, we're actually wondering there if you should not create a private Github repository of your codebase so every volonteer could give a hand!...

Another point on limbo. (Yes Deantwo we know it's server crashes and not the old limbo but we keep calling it that way because it's simplier, please don't take this debate elsewhere like you often do). We don't understand, at all, why you're not restarting servers when they're in a frozen state or if they crash. I mean, it's not like one of the first computer science thing you learn is "If it doesn't work, try rebooting". State of the art software developement nowadays uses this everywhere. I don't know for games for sure because I don't work on that domain, but I don't see at all why it couldn't be applied there too. When a freeze or a crash happens, you save the logs and you restart, that's all. It can be automated. Or you could move stuck avatars into a working server, without second guess. No problem if there's a sort of a rollback of a few minutes or hours (more is a problem though). No, the bug won't spread and won't take down all servers each time - and btw this actually already happens sometimes so what's the issue anyway?... If it needs to crash it will and that's all. Keep in mind there's nothing worse than being unable to login to a multiplayer game while others can, especially when there are no protections at all for your stuff while you're offline. And remember angry people means less subscriptions (and less free advertisement done by the community for you game), you should make a simple calculation as to how much giving all those free days costed vs cost of creating a real testing environement and restarting servers. I guess it should be obvious.


Gameplay and implementing functionalities

That brings me to a second thing: gameplay and "product ownership". It's your game. You have a dream. That's completly fine. But you have sucked to implement it for the last 6 years at least. Yes we mean it. Look at Minecraft or Rimworld: they first made sure every functionality worked before implementing new ones. And they didn't refactor huge functionalities midway, like you did for colonizing twice within 5-6 years, or for designing ships (twice the try again). Those things were working nicely before, they are mostly broken now or at least harder to grasp, that's not helping new players to join. Another good example is the restart: when we came back, it was impossible to play correctly. Why? Because there lacked many buildings blueprints to create cities, we had to get our hands on the more-complex-than-needed-designer even before going on the moon. That obviously would have scared off new players! And that's a really good example of the state of the game, you don't seem to take into account the gameplay and the "user experience" as a whole. You want to change something that works? That's okay, but wait before you're stable testing-wise and community-wise first, ie: money-wise. That sole rule would have prevented the 2014 shutdown, which did huge damage to this game and its community. And in a MMO, community is everything, more so on Shores of Hazeron where everything is built by players.

About that, it seems your decay rules are getting harder and harder with each year passing. If I remember correctly, one of your first change about that caused the Toucan Empire and a huge portion of the community to leave (I'm not completly sure about that though, it happened when I wasn't really following the drama on the forums). Now cities decays within 3 days without land, and like a week after their land's avatar account stopped paying, that's lame (and an avatar can have very few systems in his land, lame again). I remember back when I started this game when I found another empire city's ruins, that's one of the things that made me love this game. Remember everything is built by players as I said. PvE gameplay is nearly absent, pirates are but a mere nuisance (they were more fun before too, back in 2012). If you don't allow people to play for a bit, go play something else for a month then come back and still find their stuff (or in the hand of another player at least) with this kind of subscription, you're going right into a wall. A huge, hard and impenetrable wall. Especially when you broke the game during a month or two... If you force them to pay to keep their stuff, most of them will play maybe 2 months and leave to return in a year or two, I'm not sure that's what you want.

Actually, we're not sure to understand why you're putting those kind of rules with such a low amount of time. Are you that limited on server resources? That's not normal. If this page is still correct and up to date, it's a huge problem that you have such an hardware monstruosity at your disposal and performances problems. Fixing this should be one of your (many now) top priorities. I mean, what do your servers do? They should just manage players and ships/vehicles positions, store systems/planets seed, store and compute cities production and send those to clients, that's all. You don't need 12 * quad core CPUs + 4 * 16 core CPUs for that... That's more than 3 CPU cores per active player at the U6 restart! Do you have a way to get your hardware usage? Also we've always wondered how much all of that costs you. Maybe we missed when you gave those numbers but you never really were open about it, not sure why. Is the game costing you more than we are paying ? We are guessing it is, based on your hardware, but we may be wrong, and that may changes everything.

Balance and size of the universe

So let's get back on "destroying things that work" (that's volontarily exagerated). Can you look back and know how many efforts you've put in refactoring the way cities work, and worse, the way designing ship work? Why refactoring all this when it was working perfectly? Personally I sometimes miss old block cities. And old block ships that's for sure. Now it takes at least a GTX 960 to load a planet in a correct time (a little example here), while eating 100% of CPU, and it takes a massive amount of time to learn to design a ship. All those things drive away new players (and actually old ones too). You have the right to implement that obviously, but wait when other parts of the gameplay are done and working, and balanced! Balance is important. I mostly think of ship combat and empire wars etc, as I said it's people that make other people play, otherwise the game is just empty and it's just a city builder. Interactions between these players are everything, and interactions often means conflict.

Why the hell the 20 galaxies? One is already too much for the current player base, and has been for as long as we've played. Emptyness isn't fun. This isn't the first time we say that, indeed the box, which was one of our suggestion back then, was especially created in that purpose. But back then it was too small for the number of players, and it mainly showed (again) the huge balancing problems that eventually make people quit when they are fighting each other. I saw an enourmous amount of suggestions to improve war gameplay, and all of them are better than the current system which existed since 2011 at least: people can come when you sleep and take/destroy your things, and you can't do anything about that. It's even worse now with orbital bombardment and the suppression of loyalty! And I won't talk about the TL system and those kind of things that doesn't put skill above gametime (the quality/patent system doesn't change that at all, it actually worsens it because you now mostly need to wait for researches to be done, and the patents for warp takes far too long to get, I mean 1 month for warp 4 wtf ? And 2 months for warp 8? While costing peanuts like 10k credits? What should we do while we wait for that?...). And last but not least you made high quality planets easier to find, another interest in the game lost. Instead we should all be limited in the SoH galaxy at maximum and Q250+ resources (and ringworlds) should be so hard to find that they would create conflicts over them.

The future: all hope is not lost!

So yes I guess, we're really saying this game is going backwards and has been for 6 years at the very least. The thing that's the most representative is maybe the Gen IV characters. Again, the Gen III seems fine when the Gen IV are ugly and seems to use far more hardware resources. And they're also quite unusable currently, you said yourself they're not finished. So why are they available with just a small warning when creating an avatar?.. Remember, you should make sure your functionalities are done and working before shipping them to users.

The only thing that was really nice and needed? The lag fix, which came far too late. It should have been your top priority even before 2010 (but I wasn't playing at that time so I dunno really). Of course there were also minor improvements, but minors sadly, like reproduction. I'll stop with one last example: the free period to try the game should have been done as soon as 2015 when the game came back, that's the other nice thing you (finally) implemented. A free test period is the best thing to drive in new players, indeed nearly no one in 2020 would try this game by paying head on with its current "presentation" and graphics. (It was like our 2nd or 3rd suggestion when we asked the game to be brought back 5 years ago btw).

I think it's enough. If you agree (partly is enough) to what have been said here, we can dive in and all give advices in every part of the game that need rework. Keep in mind all hope is not lost. We feared publishing this because we fear your reaction, do not drop everything now! Take a few days to sit back first if this is hard :( . But we had to say this anyway, it might do good!

But yeah, if you take this message seriously like our last one from 2015, I think it's not a bad idea to wonder if restarting anew wouldn't be envisageable at all, if a change of game engine couldn't be done. I mean look at what's possible now technically...:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLIOiAZ6NHU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W18kwxP4BNQ

And remember again we're many here that wants to help you, you're not alone.

TLDR (kinda)

Not sure if this is a bug or intended, but:

I had a variety of missiles (no rockets though) in my hold but could not see them in the F5 ordnance tab at the command station

However, when I went to the actual fire control station for the launcher bay, they were there. After that I was able to see the ordnance from the command station

Emperor Bludragon KOUGW


Hope I got everything...

System Map
Avatar position is not correct on the solar system map because orbital tilt is not represented. System map needs to tilt the orbits.

Solar system map now applies the appropriate tilt when drawing planets and rings.

The solar system map can now be rotated with the mouse, using right button click and drag. This is indicated on a tool tip. A button at the top left restores the scene to the original top down view.

Lunar orbits are now drawn on the system map, when scene magnification is high enough.

Ships Spawning Neutral
There is still a bug somewhere that permits spacecraft to be manufactured with no empire.

Fixed.

Airport Mesh
The default airport terminal blueprint 2005, has a rogue mesh that is off the site and in the air.

Fixed. Will republish after the servers restart.

The airport blueprints that are distributed as .SoH files were updated.

Crew Transfer Bug
Transfer of crew requires them to be in the scene to appear on the Cargo Transfer UI. This is a problem when transferring crew from a very large ship, where some of the crew are too far away to be in the scene.

Crew transfer no longer requires them to be in the scene. The information is acquired a different way.

Indigenous Enemy
Indigenous should have a different color than red/enemy.

There are political stance colors that are different for civilians vs military. They were only used in one place, when highlighting units in top down view. I expanded the use of those colors to more different places where political stance is indicated with color.

I also updated the wiki here http://hazeron.com/wiki/index.php/Diplomacy

Wiki Button
A better connection to the wiki would be helpful.

Many windows now have a wiki button on the title bar. The button opens an appropriate topic in the wiki, using your browser.

Noob Teleport Nerf
Noob teleport should be removed.

Noob teleport was removed.

Figured I pop in at some point.    :)

I haven't been around since Syndicate's last go-around (and the harvester shit) and thought about coming back after a long bout of EVE Online with ScottyB and his gang.   Hazeron still has a big soft spot in my heart because I've still yet to see anything like it.
I see a couple of familiar names off the bat.   I hope you guys are doing well with everything going on.  

So, is there a list of new stuff for older people like me or do I need to jump in and experience it myself?

With the new designer, new manufacturing processes and refitting. It would be nice if spacecraft subsystems could be set to "empty".

For example designing a spacecraft blueprint with a shield console, but leave it with no module type selected. Then we could refit swap the empty module with a shield module once we have acquired needed materials.

With the ideas Haxus mentioned wanting to implement allowing us to change module types when starting manufacturing of a spacecraft, we could even set subsystems we haven't researched yet to empty.
Volume used on those subsystems could just be tossed into framework, or just remain unused and useless until a module is installed.

I love the concept for this game, and it's awesome to see how far its come over the years.


And whilst I've spent many hours since I came back last Thursday in the designer creating a ship which I did enjoy (up until its quirks REALLY started to irk me), I've essentially been unable to play this game.


Over the last week, due to server crashes, limbo, or client crashes or whatever, I've only been able to play <50% of the time.

Last Friday evening my character went into limbo. That whole weekend I was unable to play the game until Tuesday afternoon.
Mere hours later my character returned to limbo on Wednesday morning (just after midnight).

Servers went back up on Thursday I believe but with a massive roll-back and any progress I'd made that week to date was completely gone and had to redo it (including a 14-hour tech research so I can go explore)

Managed to finally get it going again, and even setup an out-of-system colony today, but there was a scheduled reset (fair enough)...but since then everytime I try to even login to my account the entire client crashes.


All this while of course the asteroid is coming. I suspect it was also rolled back with the roll back the other day, but at the same time having to rebuild a colony in the same place with no new experience etc isn't enjoyable to me, its just a chore I need to do to get to the new stuff. Same with tech, idm waiting for the techs to happen, but having to do it twice because of a roll back is just a chore.


Course right now my client won't respond at all so I can't even progress my empire or setup defences against the asteroid to protect the city I spent hours trying to make kinda nice.



All these issues I just can't keep going. If the game was free that would be one thing, but this is now a paid service, and when you can't access a service for <50% of the time (to date) I honestly don't think its acceptable.


I'll leave a couple issues (with possible solutions) that I think need to be addressed before any steam release is considered, and even if thats not on the table anymore then going forward in general;


1. First and foremost I believe this whole "you can't play the game you are paying for because we have to wait for manual attention on a server that probably crashed" needs to be addressed ASAP.
  -- Any other paid MMO, a server going down for a few hours would be considered unaccptable. Let alone an entire weekend, and lets not mention the frequency this happens.
  -- As this is now a paid service, I feel there needs to be attention on the backend infrastructure. I understand the idea of "I want to find the cause and fix it to prevent it happening again", but surely there has to be a way to compromise so players aren't blocked from playing a game, but the crash-cause can still be investigated. Whether this is a daily server restart, auto-restart if issues are detected (with log dumps etc), or a more complex solution such as transferring all solar systems / players / assets to a working server until the broken one can be looked at.


2. The designer. Its impressive, theres no denying that. However it is incredibly complex. I feel that removing the old designer with the new one in it's current state was far too premature. The current one needs additional tools created for it to help designers use it more easily
  -- I'd right away suggest re-adding the old one back for the time being. Being able to design your own stuff is a HUGE selling point of the game I thought. Heck its why I actually came back. But only a handful of players can use the new one from what I can tell (and some of them even struggle a lot of the time), so immediately a large amount of the playerbase has been gated out of a major selling point of the game. Add it back in so everyone can design what they want until the new designer is in a state more or less anyone can use.
  -- The new designer needs a lot of work, and tools! I suggested in discord the other day (during encountering a LOT of frustration) was more modes to separate out the commands. When you're designing the hull or rooms of a ship do you really need to be able to access stations, landscapes, pathing, details etc? Split it out into their own modes, it will reduce clutter and make the UI a lot less intimidating I feel.
  -- One mode I think is necessary, or maybe not a mode but a tool in particular, is an AI Mode/AI Debugging tool. And I don't mean a preview->preview people. I'm on about an out-of-previewer debugger tool. I suggested this in discord the other day also (I was becoming VERY frustrated with the AI). Basically the idea was to click the grid as the 'Origin'. Click the grid a second time as the 'Destination'. The designer will then cast down from those two points to the first ROOM floors it can find (if any). In designer it will then show you the full path the AI would normally take. If for whatever reason the AI doesn't think it can get to the destination, it will draw the path right up to the point it fails and colour code it amber for example (Valid Start/End points, but incomplete path). If the AI will NEVER be able to get to either point (IE one point is out in the void of space) it will colour code the invalid point red. If the AI can get to the destination it will colour the path green. I was facing this exact issue with my ship, still no idea why, but basically my AI weren't able to get to my bridge from down the hall, they would be able to walk around their room and after I told them to move somewhere inside the room first they'd then be able to get to the bridge, but it took me a while to narrow down the point of failure because I had to keep grabbing new AI to test that one room (and I've not even tested every room yet).   But I feel more debugging tools like these will help designing ships become a lot faster and less frustrating.
  -- The tutorial videos could do with some updating, or were slightly misleading (notably the AI again, I followed the tutorial video, and whilst I had a fairly simple to follow corridor to the bridge, and the bridge was near identical to the tutorial ship, the AI wouldn't work until I added path nodes EVERYWHERE, contrary to waht the video said about only needing them at doors)





Thank you everyone for the help you provided me in discord etc when I asked. And sorry again for getting rather grumpy in there that one time. But I won't be playing anymore. If I cba when I can get back into my account I might publish the few designs for global edit if anyone wants to fiddle around with them (The US Capitol building, A Washington Monument, and my 4-5Deck ship design I posted in the Pictures thread)

Character: Mallagan

Empire: The Dominion

City:  Phoenix Mining Outpost

I claimed a new world last night and constructed a new city last night.  When i pull up my empire cities list it does not show.  I have no way to pull reports or see how the city is actually doing.  This is the first world or City i have tried to claim in the last couple days.  This also seems to coincide with several Empire issues that that have cropped so i wonder if its not a server issue.

i have renamed my home system (schwierigsystem)  after about 3 days of playing. 

the change shows up in friend's system map, in a spaceship's navigation console, but NOT in my  system map and other game windows

i have since founded 2 new cities in my empire. none of them show up in the governance window (f12)

i have a feeling this might be related to the bug preventing avatar's from joining empires( http://hazeron.com/mybb/showthread.php?tid=2327)

I would suggest using Mass Media towers to negate the negative impact of having a "invading" species on planets already inhabited by especially with NPCs.

So from what I can tell / read, the reason theres no automated process to resolve limbo (in the case of server crashes etc) is it gives a chance to isolate / trace the issues which I fully respect and understand.

However I've recently been victim to limbo twice in the last 3-4 days. The first was on Saturday, and that wasn't resolved until Monday, and the second was yesterday and it is still unresolved.
Thats about 2.5-3 days I've been unable to play the game.


Would it not be possible to leave the crashed server...well...down to allow for tracing etc, but transfer the associated resources (Systems, characters etc) over to a backup server until the 'real' server is restored? That way it reduces the impact of limbo and allows people to continue playing the game, whilst the causes can be traced.


Because I've been back in the game about 5-6 days now, and about 50% of that time I've been unable to play the game because of limbo. To me it seems quite a serious and frequent issue that needs to be addressed.

Especially over weekends when it may not be addressed until Mondays, where I'd propose biting the bullet and if a crash etc happens on a weekend, just reboot the server automatically (and try to do a output dump or something with as much information as possible) to reduce the impact on players unless there is someone available to immediately look into these issues and address them.


TLDR;

- Limbo seems a very frequent and serious issue (it blocks players from playing the game entirely, and in my experience has happened about 50% of the time I've been back 'playing' this game)
- I suggest a way to reduce the impact of server crashes / limbo by autoamting some sort of process to transfer resources from the crashed / locked server to a temporary backup server until the cause can be traced to reduce the game-time impact of these crashes etc
- Over weekends I suggest that the server automatically reboot (either a daily event, or when it detects a lock / crash / whatever else could cause limbo) since the issue will not be addressed until Monday. Auto-reboot will reduce the impact of limbo on gametime and allow players to continue playing over the weekend (typically, I'd imagine, when most people have freetime)