2022-03-10 Server Load

[Deo]

A thought had occurred.

Is it possible the game was loading systems to check if it was a viable location to spawn pirates in but than failed to close them even if it didn't spawn any?
It felt like the lag really got bad around the first time I saw a pirate spawn happen in my sector (around the 7th I think).

[resonkinetic]

A thought had occurred.

Is it possible the game was loading systems to check if it was a viable location to spawn pirates in but than failed to close them even if it didn't spawn any?
It felt like the lag really got bad around the first time I saw a pirate spawn happen in my sector (around the 7th I think).

This makes sense. I had forgotten that space pirates could be causing lag

[Deantwo]

It sounds like decreasing the need for each individual empire surveying the same area of space would be a good idea to potentially lower the need for solar systems being visited multiple times. The easiest way to attempt to do this in the long-run would be to allow us to share starmap information with other empires. Selling star charts and survey information.

For example if an empire survey all systems in the Eastern Cluster, it would be nice if they could sell that survey information to new empire instead of forcing them to survey each and every solar system themselves. I have always loved the idea of burning a sector's survey information onto a disk and selling it to another player, and now that we have media devices with more space this doesn't seem all that troublesome.

Alternatively surveying sectors with NPC commanded ships could be made more automated. For example order a ship to survey a whole sector, the ship then simple go to the sector and vanish for whatever amount of time it would take the ship to survey all the solar systems. This could be done without the ship actually entering the empty non-generated solar systems. If a solar system in the sector isn't empty you just have the ship enter that solar system like normal and cut the surveying short.

[martianant]

What is the nominal number of workers and atom managers? I would assume workers is 17, but for atom managers we have seen it as high as 390 at the start of the universe but in recent days it has never been below 260. Just wondering so we can keep an eye on how the cluster's health is doing!

[Xantheose]

Sounds like someone didn't got its rekt dose this week.

I don't even know where to begin, no offense Dean, but you had too many awful, awful ideas.

It sounds like decreasing the need for each individual empire surveying the same area of space would be a good idea

No, no it wouldn't. It would works if each empire will have many systems, very close together.
Sure, its the case of your third world Foxtail empire, which I like to call the "Great Galactic Whorehouse". But other players want to hide themselves which implies not getting close to others.

Allow us to share starmap information with other empires. Selling star charts and survey information.

This feature exists actually. It's called having "allies", which will share map. But you have to get better weapons than a butter knife to be able to convince someone to protect you.
More seriously, this would be a low-value feature. No empire will have interest to share map resources with non-allies empires.

Alternatively surveying sectors with NPC commanded ships could be made more automated. For example order a ship to survey a whole sector, the ship then simple go to the sector and vanish for whatever amount of time it would take the ship to survey all the solar systems.

Oh god do you want to turn hazeron into a casual mobile game?
I don't want to click on "send a ship" button to get as only feedback a counter showing "4h left". You're a sick fuck, exploration is an important part of hazeron.




What can be done without destroying the gameplay:
- Unload genuine systems which have been unvisited for 12h.
- Wipe from disks systems which have been unvisited for 1 week. Keep their seeds in a separate database.
- Split huge table into multiple ones, requesting a table with a lot of entries in a database is very CPU intensive.
- Splitting database into multiple ones, which can be ran in multiple servers to balance the load.
- Dedicate a server to system generation.

[QuakeIV]

I wouldn’t go so far as ‘sick fuck’ that seems ridiculously excessive, but i agree dean seems to tend to want to trivialize the game to an extensive and unsuitable amount.

[Deantwo]

Allow us to share starmap information with other empires. Selling star charts and survey information.

This feature exists actually. It's called having "allies", which will share map. But you have to get better weapons than a butter knife to be able to convince someone to protect you.
More seriously, this would be a low-value feature. No empire will have interest to share map resources with non-allies empires.

No it doesn't exist, it is impossible to give or transfer survey information between empires. And yes it would be useful. It would actually give a small incentive to be near other empires. You can cooperate with surveying larger areas of space and trade the survey information.
It would likely not be a hard feature to implement, and in the long run it would lower the amount of surveying needed by those empires and give something of actual value to trade with. Could even have random disks with survey information as loot from pirates or as plunder from raiding empire cities.

Alternatively surveying sectors with NPC commanded ships could be made more automated. For example order a ship to survey a whole sector, the ship then simple go to the sector and vanish for whatever amount of time it would take the ship to survey all the solar systems.

Oh god do you want to turn hazeron into a casual mobile game?
I don't want to click on "send a ship" button to get as only feedback a counter showing "4h left". You're a ..., exploration is an important part of hazeron.

I never said that it had to become like a mobile game. All I was suggesting was to allow ships to survey scan sectors in a simulated manner so that the solar systems don't actually have to be generated at all unless a player actually wants to visit it after it is surveyed.

This might require allowing ships to explore/survey while without an online player. But if players are simply keeping their computers running through the night, it isn't really much of a limiting factor anyway and just favors players that have the ability to leave their computer running 24/7.

What can be done without destroying the gameplay:
...
- Wipe from disks systems which have been unvisited for 1 week. Keep their seeds in a separate database.
...

This is already how solar system decay works.
See: hazeron.com/wiki/index.php/Decay#Solar_System_Decay

Your other ideas are probably good and all. But they assume that the game just stays the way it is, when clearly the root cause of the problem is that players are abusing the current systems to cause way more server load than expected. It is always a good idea to try and change player behavior to cause less server load, and if that change also gives players incentives to cooperate more it is just an extra plus.

[Rockinsince87]

What can be done without destroying the gameplay:
...
- Wipe from disks systems which have been unvisited for 1 week. Keep their seeds in a separate database.
...

This is already how solar system decay works.
See: hazeron.com/wiki/index.php/Decay#Solar_System_Decay

Your other ideas are probably good and all. But they assume that the game just stays the way it is, when clearly the root cause of the problem is that players are abusing the current systems to cause way more server load than expected. It is always a good idea to try and change player behavior to cause less server load, and if that change also gives players incentives to cooperate more it is just an extra plus.

I wonder how long it really takes for a system to load back into memory? Is 1 week to much time to stay active. I'm sure Haxus picked times that make sense to him but perhaps something more manageable is needed like 1 hour no activity decay it. 

At some point loading a system over again every hour is going to take less time on servers with lower load. I just don't know what that negative point of return would be.

[martianant]

No it doesn't exist, it is impossible to give or transfer survey information between empires. And yes it would be useful. It would actually give a small incentive to be near other empires. You can cooperate with surveying larger areas of space and trade the survey information.
It would likely not be a hard feature to implement, and in the long run it would lower the amount of surveying needed by those empires and give something of actual value to trade with. Could even have random disks with survey information as loot from pirates or as plunder from raiding empire cities.

Why would I want to share my Q255 resource location and ringworlds with neighboring empires? If we were allies that would already be shared, since allies share starmaps (pretty sure). If we aren't allies, why would I share that? It's just giving my potential competitors an advantage.

I don't think it would have any impact on the amount of surveying done. Not to mention there is no incentive to live near other players due to the way war works (or doesn't hehe) and all.

[Deantwo]

Why would I want to share my Q255 resource location and ringworlds with neighboring empires?

Then don't share those exact sectors? Or maybe that feature just isn't useful for you? Not all features have to be useful to everyone.

If we were allies that would already be shared, since allies share starmaps (pretty sure).

90% sure it is not a thing.

If we aren't allies, why would I share that? It's just giving my potential competitors an advantage.

Because you could trade surveys of old sectors that you moved away from?
Maybe you can trade survey maps for a better warp FTL drive patent that would otherwise take you months to research.