Steam

[NeoKuro]

On the reset, as a returning player (I may wait for Steam release, not sure depends how long it'll be) idm either way.

But going forward I think it would be cool to have "ancient/abandoned cities" generated on _NEW_ planets (rare ofc). Whether these are cities cut-pasted (recycled) as it were from obsolete / dead empires elsewhere in the game, or procedurally generated doesn't matter. But if you're a newb in a fresh / new area of space (idk how the spawning works anymore) and start venturing out, it'd be cool to enter a system from a "long-lost" empire, with empty hulks that resemble old space stations in orbit, vast ruined cities on the surface, perhaps even a few relics like old starship designs (or 'artifacts' you can hang on your wall -- Archeology? ;) ) that'd be pretty cool tbh.

Ofc if its cut-paste from an old empire, you'd have to be pretty dang sure they really are long-gone haha...would suck to login after a few months to find your homeworld was cut pasted elsewhere haha.

[Haxus]

I have been integrating the Steamworks API into the Shores of Hazeron client that will be available on Steam. It varies only slightly at the start, because a user name and password are not required. The Steamworks API provides user credentials so SoH doesn't have to ask for any. This work has gone smoothly.

There is a large checklist of items that needs to be completed, to finalize a product for release on Steam. Not many of the checklist items involve writing any code. Most of them are now done. The biggest ones remaining are "finish the code", lol, and to establish pricing.

Steam doesn't directly support my system of buying months of play time. They suggested that I use their in game microtransaction system, to sell some sort of object that expires after a time. I like that idea because it allows people to download the software for free, which might help to reduce returns from people who don't like what they see.

Here are some ideas.

• SoH becomes free to play, with limitations.
  
• Command badge is needed to hold a captain or officer berth aboard a spacecraft.
  
• Emperor badge is needed to hold any government office or to establish empires.
  
• Architect badge is needed to enter an on line designer instance.
  

A player with no badges could hold a berth aboard a spacecraft, as crew, a troop or a passenger. They could also engage in adventures. They could use the designer in solo mode.

Badges are exclusive of each other. An emperor who wants to command a spacecraft would need both the Command and Emperor badges.

Badges would be associated with a login account, instead of a specific avatar. All avatars on the same account would hold the same badges.

When it comes to holding public office or officer berths, the lack of a badge would more likely prevent you from issuing orders in that capacity. It would be inconvenient to lose your berth or your office just because a badge expired. Without the badge, the authority normally granted by your office or berth would be ignored.

In the game, these badges would likely appear on a new page of the Bio window, showing which badges are active and when they expire. Buttons to purchase these badges would appear there as well.

Pricing. All badges are purchased in one month increments. 

• Architect Badge $1
  
• Command Badge $3
  
• Emperor Badge $6
  

Having a minimal cost for the architect badge might deter people from posting junk.

At present, the command badge alone might seem useless. It becomes useful when more story segments are completed and more PVE elements are added.

The current method of buying months of play time through PayPal will likely go away, since in game microtransactions aren't an option there. Alternatively, I could grant all badges to the accounts bought via PayPal.

Whatever your thoughts regarding the cost of playing this game, you must realize there is an expense every month just to run the servers. Free players do not help offset that expense, even if there's thousands of them.

No concrete decisions have been made. I guess I am fishing for some feedback; you often provide valuable insights.

[Vooker525]

-I would pay 1$ just to post junk. Lol
-Could current payment system be separate from steam if its not againts their rules? I heard that steam has big tax (15-20%) from income. From one side yea, it shrinks already not high income. From other side many steam users have funds from selling cards/items that usually cannot be transfered to reak bank account but can be used to buy more items or games.
-Idea with badges looks cool for me, really cool. Could probably bring buch of comrades, show them how game works, features etc so they could pay money once they are ready to make their own single man empire :D
-What about cities made by players without badges? Maybe these cities should decay faster as i think there may be a flood with them without any further progression that may also impact server performance. From other side this may lead to abandoned cities exploration which is cool.
-Also players without badges in your empire with current system will prevent cities from decaying as they are counted as avatars and citizen loyalty doesnt really make sense if your empire is hidden far far away from others (I had old style cities without abandonment penaly but with 0 loyal for around 300-400 days according to reports).
-In steam, there should be clear description about why game has N thing made that way and how it could be improved in future with help of players.
-And ofc there will be bad reviews from trolls, people who dont understand how to play games at all, people who dislike every game with questionable graphics, those who didnt pay a single penny but review like they are gods and all other trash that may make overall reviews Mixed which is not cool.

[Haxus]

Steam does not require exclusivity. They just want to be treated fairly.

[AnrDaemon]

Steam doesn't directly support my system of buying months of play time.

Does not stop other sandbox games from using that same pricing model.
But it's up to you, I guess.

[martianant]

Steam doesn't directly support my system of buying months of play time. They suggested that I use their in game microtransaction system, to sell some sort of object that expires after a time. I like that idea because it allows people to download the software for free, which might help to reduce returns from people who don't like what they see.

Take a look at EVE Online. It has two player account types. "Alpha Clone" (free player) and "Omega Clone" (paying subscription). It is a monthly subscription based game, and it is possible to pay for months via steam. Granted, accounts that buy gametime from steam can only be used on an account that is made using steam. But it hints that there are indeed ways to make steam work with it. Is the issue that the way you've set up accounts isn't compatible?

I think the badge system is going to just add even more unneeded confusion. Splitting up parts of the game might make sense if every part had something to do, but as it stands there isn't really much someone with a commander badge can do if they can't hold government offices (because if I am not mistaken that includes the office needed to build cities.) If Hazeron has hundreds of players, with lots of large empires, and a valid play style was literally just fleet commanders and fighting wars, then it would make sense. As it stands though, there isn't much to actually do beyond expand and build cities, explore with the purpose of expanding. Making the online designer cost 1$ a month won't really deter people who would want to spam in my opinion, since 1$ is extremely low. A cup of coffee costs more than it would take for me to spam inappropriate designs. If I was a nefarious person I would have no trouble doing that. I think a better approach is to just make sure there is a report system, users can report designs that might be against the rules or such, and then moderators could review them and delete/unpublish them. Community moderation can work, especially as right now much of the community are all on your side and it's fairly tight knit.

I don't want to upset or offend you in any way, but have you given Early Access a second thought? I really, really think it would be in the best interest of the game. I realize it might seem like it means "unfinished game" or some kind of negative connotation, but I think it would be beneficial for Hazeron. It feels like the core gameplay loop isn't fully done. There isn't a real concrete progression system yet since the tech removal. New Style cities are not fully fleshed out and still have a fair amount of bugs. I know Hazeron is a project of passion that has been in progress for many years, so I can absolutely see and understand how hearing someone call it "early access" might hurt. I just think it will send a different message to potential steam players. I really fear a poor steam release and what it might mean for the future of Hazeron. It's going to get compared to AAA games and for many it won't stand up, and in a way that is OK. But public image is important. The players that actually might enjoy it might take one look at the hundreds of "unfinished game marketed as finished?, buggy, blah blah" reviews that might happen and not even give it a chance. In addition, early access nets you two "release" periods, giving the potential for more marketing opportunities. I see it as the difference is a potential player looking at the game in it's current state and seeing it as "fully final, unlikely to change in any major way" without the EA tag, verse the "going to change in some fashion, perhaps I should take a look." I'd argue that adding a progression system is a potential large change to the way the game plays.

In the end, I just want only the best for Hazeron. I greatly fear it tanking on steam and it being the end. I wish it the best, and will try when I can.

[Haxus]

I didn't mean to suggest any limitation in Steam's API. By "direct" I meant the sort of out-of-the-box options, that don't require me to do much integration with my own software. Once you embrace the API, which is no small amount of work, the sky's the limit.

That is what got me exploring ways to make use of their API, to do more than just sell game months for $10.

Would you favor a standard subscription model, with a recurring payment of $10 a month? That is totally possible.

Those are probably the simplest options, that most closely match current SoH pricing.

[Haxus]

Here are some benefits to tokenizing game features (badges), though I am not totally sold on the idea of anyone playing on line for free.

• The on line game becomes open to free players. They can't do much but they are present. The game is "free to play".
  
• Once on line, free players have a way to spend a little money to do more, without creating a pay to win situation.
  
• Not all players can or will pay $10 per month but they might pay $3 or $4. This would tend to increase the player populations of existing empires, because you have to be in an empire to captain a spacecraft.
  

[Deantwo]

The badge idea is interesting, but don't know if it is a good idea. As you already pointed out, more PvE content is needed to make it engaging for Commander-only players. And Emperor-only players would have a hard time getting around.

I suggested in the past that airport terminals could have a taxi service, you select a destination airport and an NPC pops up with a helicopter/space transport/whatever to fly you there. But that only solve part of the issues with that, such as how you would get to uncolonized worlds. Some players just don't like to fly themselves.

Instead of allowing players to have either, the Emperor badge could just include the Commander abilities too. Would solve some of the issues and kinda make it a 3 level tiered account system. Each tier having all abilities of the previous.

1. Free players
   
2. Commander player
   
3. Emperor players
   

Not sure what Free players would do at all though, again need a lot more PvE content to make that viable.
Should Free players be able to make cities? Prevent city decay? Is city decay even going to be a thing?
What is there to do for a Commander player? Should they be able to make cities?
Should you have to be an Emperor player to reach space?
Until more stuff like that is figured out, I find it hard to discuss.

At least right now where we are still lacking more public building and spacecraft blueprints, I would suggest not adding a price tag on designer use. Maybe down the road if people go crazy with submitting blueprints. Player moderation of the blueprint exchange could work.

[Slaxx]

i just want to advise you haxus, dont go profit-oriented and sell yourself and the spirit of the game out.
however, i would also like to advise you to make tokens automatically-buy after they expire.

also yes i would support just standard 10$ per month. everything else is bullshit.
forget the lesser price bullshit for more players etc etc
you will get automatically enough and slowly more and more players once its on steam. they will spread it around. dont lose yourself in fancy details.

just do a monthly fee of 10$, be done with it and include a free trial too. of 1 month. thats literally the best possible way for this. dont fuck it up haxus.

however, make sure that THERE IS A FREE TRIAL!!!!!! << THIS PART IS VERY IMPORTANT!!! trust me haxus. you NEED free trial.

PS: i would like to remind all of you again that i was the one who came up with "steam"