2022-03-10 Server Load

[AlrianneG]

Generation is not simulation. You can generate as much systems as you like if there are no hardware impact, but if the server simulate all the systems that are been generated, this is why there so much lag.

No fingers pointed at Haxus, he's a single person trying to manage the whole thing

Yeah ^^ and his game is awesome ^^

[OnePercent]

Haxus didn't mention that they were generated in error, so I assume they weren't. I will say that the number of generated solar systems is massive, but we already know that common player behavior is the maximize the amount of solar systems they visit per hour. And low-tech travel further increase this.

There are empires that sent out ships with orders to just visit whole sectors while they are AFK/sleeping, just so they can then have a survey ship lazily fly between already explored solar systems and scan them one at a time.

Deadheading, unlike warp, travels through all solar systems in their path. So if empires sent out ships towards the galactic core, assuming dense sectors that could easily be 10 solar systems generated every hour per empire.

I think you're not really grasping just how many systems 150 THOUSAND is. On the very third day, when a lot of empires (by their own admission) didn't even have basic spacecraft, there were this many active. But let's assume all 501 avatars existed on day 3 and all of them had been deadheading 24/7 through unexplored sectors since the universe started. As Quake said, every avatar would need to have been visiting a system every few seconds, which just isn't possible with lightspeed, even with galactic core sector density. Nor would it be possible had we all have been using warp 1 since the start either, since as far as I know that abstracts a bit and doesn't load every system in the path. Regardless, you've ignored the fact that people would've been doing the exact same thing in previous universes, in fact even moreso as you could argue the TL system gave an incentive to colonize more worlds, and yet those weren't even remotely as bad after a week.

We don't know what type of bug could possibly be causing it, so trying to guess is kinda pointless. I am sure Haxus will find the cause if they are generated by a bug on his own. Therefore discussing the methods that we do know about makes more sense, hence suggestions that could lower the amount of solar systems generated during surveying for resources.

You're also guessing when you suggest that players are the problem and that fixing the system generation from this angle has any relevance to the issue at hand. This also seems pointless by your logic, no? This angle also contradicts previous universes, so it doesn't make much sense either.

As for why solar systems aren't "unloaded" a few hours after they are empty? How would anyone know why Haxus hasn't done that already? I only have a wiki edit Haxus made explaining when solar systems decay. So maybe the thought of "unloading a solar system" never occurred to him or maybe it wasn't a viable solution in the long run, none of us here will know unless Haxus decides to tell us. However arguing that a suggestion is stupid/unnecessary because of a solution that might not be viable/possible could potentially exist seems counter productive.

We don't know why or even if they unload. What we do know is that previous universes with the same bugs and players didn't have this issue, and using everything Haxus and other players said in this thread, alongside numbers given in the standings, we're able to make an educated guess that players are most likely not the cause of this one. We have no evidence showing as such, and even if the cause *was* somebody finding a way to maliciously generate thousands of solar systems instantly, we currently have no reason to believe as such. That's why your suggestions aren't really super relevant here, they're more guesses than anything else. Haxus wouldn't have mentioned there being 270k systems "fast" if it was unrelated, and given that players are unable to have explored this quickly, server-side bugs are the obvious culprit. Blindly blaming the playerbase for this seems counter-productive.

PS: I didn't say your suggestion was unnecessary, just that it doesn't seem relevant to these specific issues and that we should focus on the more likely glaring causes. Regardless, if unloading unused assets is "not viable", then it needs to be made viable immediately since almost no games keep everything permanently loaded, as it's a huge waste of hardware resources as we can see here

Servers have been very heavily loaded managing 270k solar systems.

270k systems activly simulated? If this is correct, it's absurd.


You need to simulate only where players and ships are !!

[Starhero]

Not quite reading the entire thread but my 2 cents of simulation is this

If the system has bases in it...doesn't it need to be lightly simulated at least for production and taxes? If we are ONLY talking about render then yes 230k systems is completely and utterly absurd given that its a new universe and there aren't 230 people playing.

It all depends on where that simulation for bases and cities and such, is ... in the code for simulation.. Technically orbits COULD stop when no player is in a system..but wouldn't this mess with calculations of solar power and farming?

Maybe I'm just confused on how the game is simulated...are cities on a completely different part of the simulation you guys are talking about? Cuz it's def possible to hit a number like that in a mature universe, AND expected for an MMO (anyone saying otherwise...you must love limitations! It's not limited..so you can take EVERY planet..EVERY system...wouldn't that kill hazeron tho utterly from what you guys are saying?)

What are you guys calling "Simulated"? Are we talking orbits or just background data?

[martianant]

Not quite reading the entire thread but my 2 cents of simulation is this

If the system has bases in it...doesn't it need to be lightly simulated at least for production and taxes? If we are ONLY talking about render then yes 230k systems is completely and utterly absurd given that its a new universe and there aren't 230 people playing.

It all depends on where that simulation for bases and cities and such, is ... in the code for simulation.. Technically orbits COULD stop when no player is in a system..but wouldn't this mess with calculations of solar power and farming?

Maybe I'm just confused on how the game is simulated...are cities on a completely different part of the simulation you guys are talking about? Cuz it's def possible to hit a number like that in a mature universe, AND expected for an MMO (anyone saying otherwise...you must love limitations! It's not limited..so you can take EVERY planet..EVERY system...wouldn't that kill hazeron tho utterly from what you guys are saying?)

What are you guys calling "Simulated"? Are we talking orbits or just background data?

Stuff like this is where abstractions need to come in to the simulated state. A naive approach is indeed to fully simulate everything as if a player was there. A better approach (and one I would be surprised to hear Haxus isn't doing) involves simplifying the game states more. Orbits are (correct me if I am wrong) simple circles so a position is based on time and can be calculated pretty cheaply, without  needing to physical 'move' a planet every second or so in the background if no one is there.

For example for farming/solar, you know the solar day period. Instead of calculating if the farm/solar is in light or not, average the output over the solar day period.

There are a lot of abstractions that could be done with the city processes / inventory that I don't know if it is being done, that probably could/should be done too. Reducing the CPU burden is important for desiring the vast scale of having these.

Ultimately, we know that in the past universes it was never this bad, so there likely is a bug somewhere that Haxus is working hard to track down and fix. Future optimizations are always welcome to, and I am hopeful Haxus will figure it out.

I've had an avatar stuck in limbo for five days, and when I wasn't in limbo past day 4 or day 5 of this universe most systems were utterly unplayable to be in with actions taking minutes to take effect, with AI crew constantly crashing into planets / atmospheres/ stars and ships getting destroyed, etc. I really hope all these issues can be fixed before establishing the pay to play plans, because if I am being honest (and I hope I am not alone in this), I wouldn't really be willing to pay for months when I can barely play due to issues. I want to support Haxus of course, but these are huge issues that haven't been as bad in the past. I do hope Haxus can figure out what is causing them!

[QuakeIV]

Just wanted to note the feature where you can ctrl-c coordinates from the starmap is very much appreciated.

[AnrDaemon]

I'm not going to repeat my arguments against world fragmentation, simulation.