01-15-2022, 11:08 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2022, 12:05 AM by martianant.
Edit Reason: Math error, galaxy is actually way bigger than I thought
)
Everyone keeps talking about how to fix the problem with weird over complicated solutions like "Safe space" or "civilized space" and a bunch of NPC empires that would end up introducing weirdness mechanics wise.
The bottom line is combat and war need to be fixed. War needs to take longer. It should have some kind of lead up period, so the defender can rally allies/friends. It needs to take time to actually take a system, so the defender and friends can field a fleet. There can be no epic battle stories if the battles take play within hours while everyone else is offline.
If people can live near by other people and not fear total destruction while they are asleep, if they can have some kind of guarantee that the friends they live near by could actually help defend them, then they would probably live near each other! We don't need to have an artificial reason for a civilized space to exist. And I don't want to speak for Haxus, but I feel like he would rather see this kind of space develop organically by players with player empires interacting.
I also think having 20 galaxies is way too much. Especially given the player counts. One galaxy is plenty of space, and if there was ever a case where it wasn't then adding another galaxy would be pretty easy.
Honestly I'd even prefer if the one galaxy was a little smaller, not box size of course but 1/5th the current size or something. It's still vast. It's still a huge galaxy! I think people don't understand just how huge the Shores of Hazeron galaxy is. It has hundreds of thousands, if not millions of stars right now. For the player counts the game has been getting, even going back to the box days, every player could have thousands of star systems with no competition.
We want to encourage player interaction, having 20 huge galaxies means everyone spreads out (especially because being near someone means you can wake up tomorrow and have lost everything!) leading to a social heat death of the universe.
I am happy to see Hazeron is not dead, but please please please consider improving the combat/war system so it can stand a chance of having a different outcome than universe 5 and 6's slow heat death and decline in player count.
We can't build a galaxy full of adventure and quests and fun without some kind of change happening.
EDIT:
Just want to touch on how huge the game is with some numbers before people say making it have a single galaxy that's smaller would "ruin" it by making it "small"
Shores of Hazeron is 5,000pc in diameter. it's probably an average of 100 maybe 150 pc in height? that means roughly a box of 5000x5000x150 pc of space.
A sector is 10x10x10pc, so the galaxy is roughly 500x500x15 sectors of space.
That's 3,750,000 sectors. Sectors near the core are very dense, and near the rim are pretty sparse. Let's just say the average density of 10 systems per sector.
That's 37,750,000 systems
Box days the game had maybe a 100-200 players? That's 187,500 systems assuming the generous 200 players. Maybe the game explodes unexpectedly and we get 1,000 players! That's still 37,500 systems for every single player.
The universe has 20 galaxies... One galaxy 1/5th the size would be 7,550,000 systems still. That's still a huge galaxy! Even that might be too big!!
If we ever actually ran out, it would be pretty easy to add back in the intergalactic wormhole to a new galaxy with another million+ star systems.
I was informed that my density and height was incorrect. At the core it's 80 thick and probably 60 systems a sector in density. As a pure average, I will instead use 40 thick and 24 density
this is 500x500x40x24 or 240,000,000 systems in the Shores of Hazeron galaxy alone. I was doing the math on total system count in the game and with my previous (incorrect) assumption of 15 sector height and 10 density I got 269,385,000 total systems. that means the approx number in Shores of Hazeron is even greater than my bad guess of the entire universe! Guys I promise a smaller galaxy won't hurt us.
Assuming every galaxy has an average height of 40 sectors with an average system density of 24 systems/sector, the entire universe has 1,724,064,000 systems!
EDIT 2:
Another thing that might help if we want to give a reason for players to congregate is if there was an uneven distribution of resource qualities, so only a few regions in the galaxy had Q250+ resources. It would mean fighting would probably occur just to have those resources.
The bottom line is combat and war need to be fixed. War needs to take longer. It should have some kind of lead up period, so the defender can rally allies/friends. It needs to take time to actually take a system, so the defender and friends can field a fleet. There can be no epic battle stories if the battles take play within hours while everyone else is offline.
If people can live near by other people and not fear total destruction while they are asleep, if they can have some kind of guarantee that the friends they live near by could actually help defend them, then they would probably live near each other! We don't need to have an artificial reason for a civilized space to exist. And I don't want to speak for Haxus, but I feel like he would rather see this kind of space develop organically by players with player empires interacting.
I also think having 20 galaxies is way too much. Especially given the player counts. One galaxy is plenty of space, and if there was ever a case where it wasn't then adding another galaxy would be pretty easy.
Honestly I'd even prefer if the one galaxy was a little smaller, not box size of course but 1/5th the current size or something. It's still vast. It's still a huge galaxy! I think people don't understand just how huge the Shores of Hazeron galaxy is. It has hundreds of thousands, if not millions of stars right now. For the player counts the game has been getting, even going back to the box days, every player could have thousands of star systems with no competition.
We want to encourage player interaction, having 20 huge galaxies means everyone spreads out (especially because being near someone means you can wake up tomorrow and have lost everything!) leading to a social heat death of the universe.
I am happy to see Hazeron is not dead, but please please please consider improving the combat/war system so it can stand a chance of having a different outcome than universe 5 and 6's slow heat death and decline in player count.
We can't build a galaxy full of adventure and quests and fun without some kind of change happening.
EDIT:
Just want to touch on how huge the game is with some numbers before people say making it have a single galaxy that's smaller would "ruin" it by making it "small"
Shores of Hazeron is 5,000pc in diameter. it's probably an average of 100 maybe 150 pc in height? that means roughly a box of 5000x5000x150 pc of space.
A sector is 10x10x10pc, so the galaxy is roughly 500x500x15 sectors of space.
That's 3,750,000 sectors. Sectors near the core are very dense, and near the rim are pretty sparse. Let's just say the average density of 10 systems per sector.
That's 37,750,000 systems
Box days the game had maybe a 100-200 players? That's 187,500 systems assuming the generous 200 players. Maybe the game explodes unexpectedly and we get 1,000 players! That's still 37,500 systems for every single player.
The universe has 20 galaxies... One galaxy 1/5th the size would be 7,550,000 systems still. That's still a huge galaxy! Even that might be too big!!
If we ever actually ran out, it would be pretty easy to add back in the intergalactic wormhole to a new galaxy with another million+ star systems.
I was informed that my density and height was incorrect. At the core it's 80 thick and probably 60 systems a sector in density. As a pure average, I will instead use 40 thick and 24 density
this is 500x500x40x24 or 240,000,000 systems in the Shores of Hazeron galaxy alone. I was doing the math on total system count in the game and with my previous (incorrect) assumption of 15 sector height and 10 density I got 269,385,000 total systems. that means the approx number in Shores of Hazeron is even greater than my bad guess of the entire universe! Guys I promise a smaller galaxy won't hurt us.
Assuming every galaxy has an average height of 40 sectors with an average system density of 24 systems/sector, the entire universe has 1,724,064,000 systems!
EDIT 2:
Another thing that might help if we want to give a reason for players to congregate is if there was an uneven distribution of resource qualities, so only a few regions in the galaxy had Q250+ resources. It would mean fighting would probably occur just to have those resources.