Fleet Channel, named fleets channels and no Starforce channel

[Ivan]

I like the fact that fleets were added. But there a thing that bothers me: You cannot give orders to ships under a flagship that you're not berthed at.

I had envisioned fleets in a slightly different way:

- You could create fleets and name them, e.g. First Fleet, Orion Sector Fleet or Battlegroup Gamma.

- Hailing in the Fleet channel would then open channels to all individual ships like before, aswell as open channels to all named fleets. Giving orders in the named channels would then give the order to all ships within that fleet. Also currently it seems to open 2 different channels to flagships (one from Fleet and one from Starforce)

The formations and travelling together I had not envisioned, but they do sound nice, so I'm ok with that. I however envisioned it to merely be a way of communicating with a select group of ships (instead of all ships in system/sector range). But grouped warps/jumps do sound cool.


This would be nice because you could give orders to fleets aswell as to all individual ships of every fleet at all times. . After completing individual orders ships could then return to the flagship. That way ships within a remote fleet can be sent to do errands.

And best of all, it could solve the Starforce naming conundrum because that channel would not be needed anymore

I realise that this might be nitpicking a bit and maybe asking to much for Hazeron but i got that from X4 foundations where individaul ships can be sent do orders, then automatically return to fleet orders after finishing the individual task.

Might just be fueled by resitance to change, dunno, we'll see what other people think. :D

[Deantwo]

Why doesn't the current system work?

1. Hail Starforce channel
   
2. Go to the private channel for the flagship of your desired fleet
   
3. Give the flagship orders to control the fleet
   

I would argue that you can just place an alt avatar in each fleet, you will likely want this anywaybsince it is just much more convenient. So getting to each ship in your fleets shouldn't be that hard.
Not sure why you would want to remotely give orders to individual ships in another fleet though.

And best of all, it could solve the Starforce naming conundrum because that channel would not be needed anymore

Could just name the channel "Ships". Only confusing part is that it doesn't include company ships, but I do think company ships are unnecessary currently.

[Celarious]

I think it may be intended, as a fleet acts as one big ship, and having each ship respond individually be controllable might get a bit confusing, especially if they wouldn't normally respond outside of a fleet due to not having an officer

[Deantwo]

especially if they wouldn't normally respond outside of a fleet due to not having an officer

Ships don't require an officer to be part of a fleet? You sure about that? Interesting if true.
Yeah, then it just makes even more sense. Not sure they would reply if you hail the Fleet channel either then.

[Celarious]

especially if they wouldn't normally respond outside of a fleet due to not having an officer

Ships don't require an officer to be part of a fleet? You sure about that? Interesting if true.
Yeah, then it just makes even more sense. Not sure they would reply if you hail the Fleet channel either then.

Yeah I tested, any ship can join, I added everything in orbit over my capital to it no problem

[Ivan]

Deantwo Why doesn't the current system work?

1. Hail Starforce channel
   
2. Go to the private channel for the flagship of your desired fleet
   
3. Give the flagship orders to control the fleet
   

1. Because you can't control individual ships within fleets and they don't repond.

I would argue that you can just place an alt avatar in each fleet, you will likely want this anywaybsince it is just much more convenient. So getting to each ship in your fleets shouldn't be that hard.
Not sure why you would want to remotely give orders to individual ships in another fleet though.

1. Because you want individual ships to sometimes do something else, without disbanding the fleet and without moving to the flagship. You might also want to board that specific ship quickly by asking it in it's direct channel (and yes I know there are other ways of getting on the ship).

2. Can you really not imagine numerous situations where giving a separate order to an individual ship would be useful, especially once we get AI empires or multiplayer? Have you ever played X4 Foundations? In X4 you can have a ship be part of the fleet and order it to do something remotely. E.g. a frigate is assigned to a destroyer guarding a gate, but you want it to briefly move to a station to kill some xenon, then after completing the order it returns to the fleet, without having to move the destroyer away from whatever position it was defending.

In Hazeron, you might want a fleet to operate in a sector (e.g. Orion Sector fleet) and have different ships in this fleet move to different systems within this sector or orbit different planets to protect them. (impossible without being on the flagship). At the same time you'd want the ability to give orders to the entire fleet when needed , but not to other ships which happen to be in the sector (meaning you can't use sector range), and you'd also want to be able to do this without being in the sector yourself (which we can do now). I've actually exprienced this issue in the MMo when I had 100+ ships, so I'm glad this is now possible. You might want to send a single or a few frigates or destroyers to a different planet or system to take out a small attack force, without jeopardising the safety of the system where the remainder of the fleet is stationed, without having to disband the fleet every time or having to berth over or switch characters.

I thought of fleets more like administrative units, with the ability to give fleet orders, but not lose the ability to give individual orders. So additional functionality, without losing functionality.

3. Simply because you should be able to hail any ship in a fleet and give it an individual order without being on the flagship. It is unneccessary that this ability was removed when adding fleets.
4. You can only have 6 characters. Using characters to fix a shortcoming is a fake fix. The shortcoming should be fixed instead. Maybe I want 5 different empires? Maybe I'll want multiple fleets in each empire?
I suppose if it still were an MMOI it could make sense to have a player or character as the commander of each fleet. But it's singleplayer now.
5. Because I like having full control over everything and not being able to contact individual ships feels like a step back. It makes me not use fleets or disband them often.

My system would offer superior control to the current system and be more akin to X4 Foundations and real life. (Central command would usually give the order to the fleet commander who would relay it to a ship'ss captain, but they could also directly contact a single ship.):

Controlling every ship individually in addition to every fleet, and being able to give custom names to fleets, is superior to just being able to control the entire fleet and having the fleet carry the name of the flagship. Besides I think it would not be a large change in the code (I could be wrong, depending on how it is organised)

Could just name the channel "Ships". Only confusing part is that it doesn't include company ships, but I do think company ships are unnecessary currently.

I guess the name is just a matter of getting used to perhaps, but still to me Starforce is a really ugly name somehow.
Here's a new idea:
- Hailing in the Fleet channel could either A) open channels to all custom named fleets (Fleet 1, Fleet 2 ...) or B) to all named fleets AND all ships.
- In case of A) Hailing "(military) Ships" could open channels to all military ships. In case of B) it is just like what I initially suggested.
- Hailing in "Fleet 1" channel could open channels to all ships in that and give the ability to order the entity of Fleet 1

Ships don't require an officer to be part of a fleet? You sure about that? Interesting if true.
Yeah, then it just makes even more sense. Not sure they would reply if you hail the Fleet channel either then.

Well yes in the case that ships can join fleets without having an officer command them, it does make sense that individual ships cannot reply ... but does it make sense that ships within a fleet don't need an officer? Does it make sense to have any RL navy ship not have captain or anyone in charge?

It's like you're saying: "because this nonsense exists, the other nonsense makes sense."