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+--- Thread: 2022-01-13 FYI (/showthread.php?tid=2612)
RE: 2022-01-13 FYI - Haxus - 01-14-2022
Quote:Will be there be anything for empires that do not log in for a long period of time?
If "anything" means "any decay or other penalty" the answer is "no". Empires persist as long as they have avatar citizens. Empires with no citizens are removed in a maintenance process that runs once per day.
RE: 2022-01-13 FYI - Haxus - 01-14-2022
Minor detail, noncombatant spacecraft cannot be captured.
RE: 2022-01-13 FYI - Deantwo - 01-15-2022
(01-14-2022, 04:38 PM)Haxus Wrote: Empire becomes noncombatant 15min after the last avatar in the empire logs off. It is complicated to check all avatars on the same account and a player could easily sidestep this by using multiple accounts.
Units within orbital range of worlds with an empire military base are immune to attack; they will defend that area but they will not pursue enemies outside the area. Thus they become invincible defenders but their range is limited; otherwise someone will put a big invincible station somewhere bad, like near an intergalactic wormhole. The presence of a military base insures that no other empires have cities on the world, to prevent an invincible defense using an alt empire.
All other units continue to attack and defend as normal without immunity.
Sounds pretty good for a start. Looking forward to see it in practice.
I still think that actual planetary capture/invasion/bombardment/attack could use some changes. But I will spare you listening to me repeating again and my constant linking to the same idea thread.
(01-14-2022, 09:44 PM)Haxus Wrote:(01-14-2022, 08:27 PM)Zensras Wrote: Will be there be anything for empires that do not log in for a long period of time?
If "anything" means "any decay or other penalty" the answer is "no". Empires persist as long as they have avatar citizens.
In the long run this might cause some issues. Such as if an empire claims all the good quality resource worlds and heavily defend them, then go inactive for a few years.
Unless you mean "avatar citizens with an active subscription".
But I guess this kinda feeds into the question that you seem to have been avoiding a little. With the talk of purchasing an empire and such, a lot of players has started to wonder what that would mean for the monthly subscription or if it is even going to be there.
You haven't said there won't be a monthly subscription, so I am guessing you are just toying with the idea of lowering it?
This is a business model and financial topic, so I understand if you haven't settled on it all yet. But that does seem to be the question that everyone is most focused on right now.
RE: 2022-01-13 FYI - Haxus - 01-15-2022
Here’s a thought that could be explored.
Avatars accumulate points based on online time.
Some large number of those points could be spent to establish a new empire.
The game could start up with two to five existing empires that always allow new players to join.
RE: 2022-01-13 FYI - Phoenix - 01-15-2022
Thank you for returning Haxus. Thank you for making this game.
Please consider re-opening Patreon (without any rewards for backers) for those of us willing to donate extra to this cause and without increasing the workload on yourself.
Requested Bug Fixes
1. Building Site Bug: Building sites do not work in preview mode. They do not alter the terrain and thus cannot be tested.
2. Building Sites Do Not Override player terrain leveling: Currently if a player levels an area in order to build a city, the building sites will not really be seen because they are being overridden by the local terrain modification. If the building's own site had priority then it would allow me to make hills, mines, and other unique designs which currently I cannot do now.
3. Preview Mode Broken: Hazeron Starship preview mode is broken (you already mentioned this).
4. Designer Selection Bug: Occasionally the designer will select items and vertices 180 degrees behind the player. I do not know what causes this, but please be aware it is very consistent. The curser will select things all the way behind the player which makes complex work difficult.
5. Associations are Lost During Copy and Paste: Associations are not retained during copy and pasting. In regards to door and void associations. When you copy and paste the designer must re-associate all the voids. This makes building pre-set rooms and things impossible to design. Not sure if this is truly a bug or limitation, but it would be best if copied and pasted items retained their associations and were not tied to each other.
6. Hazeron Starship Load Times: Hazeron Starship takes an extortionary long time to load. This may be due to my save file size, but it is certainly at the point where I need to walk away from the computer for 15-20 minutes or longer after selecting an avatar. This should probably be fixed or a warning should appear for new players because it can seem like the game is broken or frozen. Additionally if a player becomes impatient and attempts to close the program early. This will almost certainly cause the save file to be deleted.
7. Save Deletion Bug: Hazeron Starship routinely deletes its own save. I have no idea what causes this but it seems to happen 1 out of 10 times or so when I start up Hazeron Starship. The only workaround I have is to manually copy and paste the safe file into a different area to protect a copy from the game itself.
8. Unable to Transit to Different Galaxies in Hazeron Starship: The neutral galactic wormhole in the center of the galaxy does not appear to be functional. Every time I have attempted to transit to another galaxy the game has frozen and the character has entered limbo. Eventually the character will return, but is simply counted as being destroyed by the black hole. This has been tested several times and I am as sure as I can be that it is not user error. It may be a bad idea to allow players to go to different galaxies in single player, but right now it is impossible but seemingly permitted.
9. Starship Factory Site Bug: Currently starship factories do not seem able to spawn ships if they are build on terrain which has been leveled previously. I believe this is related to the building still believing they are spawning the ship into terrain. Please edit so that a player can build a factory even on modified terrain without the "No unobstructed landing pad" bug presenting itself. This bug also seems to appear when a factory design has an elevated platform or other modification.
10. Mining from planetary rings seems bugged: Very often if you order a starship to collect material such as anti-flux particles from a planetary ring, the ship will fly to an area and be unable to collect anything from that location. Very often you need to fly around manually to a spot where the ship can collect.
11. Starship Factory Site Bug:
Suggested Changes
1. Allow players to design and construct Orbital Elevators. These designs could work the same as platforms where an airport could be constructed at the top of a designated build area. If the file size is a concern, please consider allowing certain editors who can be reasonably trusted to submit designs to yourself for approval. I think I can make something of minimal file size for everyone to use.
2. Allow players to designate areas within a Space Station design for non-ground spawning star ships to appear. This would give me additional options for designing stations with their own landing pads and allow ease of access for a player to hop into newly spawned ships.
3. Allow players to associate an automatic door with a turbolift instead of using the door jig to create a new door at each floor. The current method requires me to cut a new door at each stop and then copy and paste the vertices and faces in "face mode" for each open state (10% 50% etc) in order to use a common door design for a space ship.
4. Allow players to design ground vehicles. I know this was already an idea you had, but please keep it in mind. It would be great if we could design vehicles large enough to walk around inside as well and perhaps with modules like mining or weapons so we can develop multi-purpose vehicles.
This is all I can think of at this time. Thanks again for your efforts.
RE: 2022-01-13 FYI - Vivalas - 01-15-2022
(01-15-2022, 01:25 AM)Haxus Wrote: Here’s a thought that could be explored.
Avatars accumulate points based on online time.
Some large number of those points could be spent to establish a new empire.
The game could start up with two to five existing empires that always allow new players to join.
This of course would be a rather large change and there would be a bit of controversy. I kinda like the idea and am interested to see how it would play out, but at the same time I think a lot of people like the idea of the independence and culture of creating their own empire out in the void.
On the other hand playing as part of a larger empire gives you plenty of protection and there is plenty of space in the galaxy in this game so there's nothing stopping you from founding your own worlds and growing them on your own, so to speak.
I keep up bringing up vassalization mechanics but I think a crusader kings type "realm" would work for a public empire like that, or even for empires that want more players to join them. A sort of non-revokable option that makes it so that worlds colonized by players in the realm become their sole non-revokable property would help for players to expand without fear that people higher on the totem pole can just kick them and take everything they worked on. On the other hand, in this psuedo-vassal association, the vassal has to pay a tribute of all the resources they produce and any officers on their worlds (maybe leaving one or two for the vassal to use) are levied by the liege to use to make the military stronger.
This is a more secure option for larger empires because unlike a "true" current vassal, this type or vassal can never rebel or part ways, or their demense (property) is revoked. They also cannot lock down Q255 with their worlds completely, since they'll get paid as tribute. This provides more hierarchy options to larger empires where they can assign these feudal vassals to positions in the fleet and perhaps award them for their services in battle. Having plenty of vassals going out and securing habitable worlds also greatly benefits the liege since they get all the officers to appropriate for defense and conquest, and they get an empire full of players that can be appointed to positions where they can manage fleets and defense and such.
Phew, that's a lot. I admire your commitment to simple design and so I want to boil the above down to the simple components it has:
Empires elect to become feudal
Once they do so, and if they open up to new players, new players, those new players join with a protected "subject" status (to differentiate from normal vassals)
Subjects are normal citizens of the Empire
They don't run their own empires like vassals do, and cannot found or join another empire without leaving and forfeiting their lands.
Any planets subjects found become their personal "demense" and cannot be revoked from them, with the exception of perhaps an empire wide vote.
While they retain full sovereignty of these planets (others in the empire, including the emperor, cannot build or interfere without the subject's permission. The subject pays a fixed tribute of all resources produced (the tribute is set when the empire becomes feudal) and a percentage of officers they produce, but at least one. They essentially get to govern their planets autonomously without being disturbed.
Those are the core ideas. I like the idea of requiring players to play as part of an empire a bit before spreading their wings, but this comes with a potential downside of more tyrannical players abusing the people who play in these public empires and the feudal system is designed to offer some protections while also allowing subjects to contribute positively.
Here are some bonus ideas for galactic hegemonic drama:
Emperor's can hold a vote to change the tribute and levy requirements
If the vote passes, everyone who was against the vote gets the option to break off and form a rebel empire, potentially breaking large empires if the vote is very contentious and close, forcing emperors to choose carefully when changing laws.
Emperors can decide that they are in fact, the Senate, and change laws without consulting anyone at all.
This includes revoking another subject's demense without an empire wide vote. Of course, the downside is that ALL other subjects get the option to revolt, including the one being revoked. This one might be a bit harder to balance and prevent abuse with, so perhaps it can be locked unless there are a certain number of subjects.
Alternative empire government mechanics aside, I really like the idea of forcing this community play at the beginning, since I think a lot of the mechanics around permissions and public / private spaceships and assets gets overlooked.
RE: 2022-01-13 FYI - Phoenix - 01-15-2022
(01-15-2022, 01:25 AM)Haxus Wrote: Here’s a thought that could be explored.
Avatars accumulate points based on online time.
Some large number of those points could be spent to establish a new empire.
The game could start up with two to five existing empires that always allow new players to join.
This gives me an idea.
Concept: NPC Empires inside "Civilized Region of Protected Space
Goal: Give new non-emperor avatars a place to adventure, give empires a safe meeting ground, provide a bit of lore and populate the universe.
I think you could let a few designated players each build 5-10 planet empires (or bigger if you want) in a designated region of space. Then you could import those empires into the universe as NPC empires of civilized space. Inside this space players would be unable to attack each other without being destroyed by an overwhelmingly powerful NPC ship. This would allow a neutral meeting area for all civilizations and an area where solo players could spawn a basic ship and start flying trade missions or exploring/adventuring. Player empires would exist anywhere outside this "civilized NPC controlled space." The NPCs would not expand or interact with player empires aside from providing them a place to visit and perhaps sell some items to via trade ships.
This would allow for a safe area for new non-emperor avatars and a place where in game meetings could be held. It would also add to the lore and sense of permanence of the Hazeron Universe. Players could decide for their own reasons if they wanted to stay near the bubble of established colonies or make their own way on the other side of the galaxy.
If you allow semi-trusted players to build these empires in Hazeron Starship and then submit the saves to you then it would save you the time of building out a system for AI system development and give players a great way of feeling like part of the game. Each of the NPC empires would be guaranteed to be unique as each player builds differently. Giving them 5-10 systems would allow them to build a somewhat rounded out empire with a few farming worlds and mining outposts and major population centers. You could pick different players for each universe.
![[Image: vQUkyx4.png]](https://i.imgur.com/vQUkyx4.png)
------------------------------
Second Concept: Semi-Civilized Region of Space
Goal: Provide an area for Player empires where combat could happen under agreed terms
Additional features: Outside of civilized space there could be a region where player empires can build, but can only war with mutual agreement. This would be as if the NPC empires were enforcing some type of rule of law in this region and would allow empires to safely build next to the NPC hub without fear of being immediately destroyed by 1-2 players determined to do so. Please note that this "semi-civilized" space would not take away from player's ability to PVP and attack others outside of civilized space.
Perhaps a Limit on Player Controlled colonies within this space would be 5-10 so one player could not monopolize the area.
-----------------------------
Third Concept: Limit Travel in Civlized and Semi-Civilized Space to Wormhole
Goal: Provide a sense of distance within civilized space and provide "terrain" which players could exploit for trade or tactical purposes
Additional Feature: I would also like to suggest that both the Civilized Space and Semi-Civilized Space regions be limited to Wormhole Drive only. This would give more a feeling of galactic terrain (choke points and long travel times to distant colonies) so battles would be tactical as players attempted to deal with the limitations of this space. This could be explained away with a lore reason such as the civilized powers utilizing some sort of technology or perhaps a natural feature of a galactic region where warp travel does not function.
There would be be long distance wormhole corridors in order to keep the space crossable in a reasonable time.
![[Image: Hum6b5u.png]](https://i.imgur.com/Hum6b5u.png)
-----------------------------
Bottom Line: This system would allow players to transition from a protected play style to a more traditional Hazeron Experiance where it is dog eat dog. Players would not be forced to interact with this system and it would allow for the best of both worlds and a unique new NPC empire feature.
RE: 2022-01-13 FYI - Vivalas - 01-15-2022
(01-15-2022, 04:31 AM)Phoenix Wrote:(01-15-2022, 01:25 AM)Haxus Wrote: Here’s a thought that could be explored.
Avatars accumulate points based on online time.
Some large number of those points could be spent to establish a new empire.
The game could start up with two to five existing empires that always allow new players to join.
This gives me an idea.
Concept: NPC Empires inside "Civilized Region of Protected Space
Goal: Give new non-emperor avatars a place to adventure, give empires a safe meeting ground, provide a bit of lore and populate the universe.
...
I really like this system as well. I don't think "mutual terms" would spawn very many interesting wars, however, so perhaps on the more "complicated and less likely to fit into Haxus' vision" end, some sort of basic "casus belli" system (I know I keep drawing from Paradox games) could be implemented. That is, war must have some sort of legal grounds (whether you denounce which gives, say, a week-long period to prepare) and war is limited to the conquest of a few systems per war rather than complete and total destruction (in semi-civil space). I don't think mutual war agreement would be very common, but at least having some legal framework for war would make sense under the whole "governed by NPC powers" rule while still allowing for regular conflict and PvP, which is a large portion of SoH's nature.
Some sample CBs could be:
"Border Friction" (settling a system too close to another empire, who gets to choose this CB, NOT the person settling the system)
"Total War" (you get to use this with a shorter warm up period than denouncing, and with the ability to take more systems, but EVERYONE else gets the opportunity to join the defender.
"Denounce" (you get to attack after a determined time, and the war is limited to the accumulation of certain amounts of war score or conquest, to prevent total KOs
These are just some ideas, but the goal of a system would be to prolong conflicts and political drama to more than just quick extinction of the losing side and will provide a more rich ingame history and lore more akin to the complex and more "civilized" limited conflicts of European history. Someone on the discord brought up sec levels akin to Eve, and I think Phoenix's suggestion fits well there. Similarly someone else mentioned that if wars lasted longer, people would have a chance to intervene and perhaps come to the aid of the defender before they're totally wiped, if say, some galactic bully is running around being a warmonger. This also prolongs the universe and presents some checks against one empire snowballing and taking over, while still allowing more conflict on the outer "frontier" sector. I would also add, perhaps, that maybe this full PvP space has greater quality resources, to compensate for the extra risk of settling in this area.
RE: 2022-01-13 FYI - Phoenix - 01-15-2022
Quote:I really like this system as well. I don't think "mutual terms" would spawn very many interesting wars, however, so perhaps on the more "complicated and less likely to fit into Haxus' vision" end, some sort of basic "casus belli" system (I know I keep drawing from Paradox games) could be implemented. That is, war must have some sort of legal grounds (whether you denounce which gives, say, a week-long period to prepare) and war is limited to the conquest of a few systems per war rather than complete and total destruction (in semi-civil space). I don't think mutual war agreement would be very common, but at least having some legal framework for war would make sense under the whole "governed by NPC powers" rule while still allowing for regular conflict and PvP, which is a large portion of SoH's nature.
Some sample CBs could be:
"Border Friction" (settling a system too close to another empire, who gets to choose this CB, NOT the person settling the system)
"Total War" (you get to use this with a shorter warm up period than denouncing, and with the ability to take more systems, but EVERYONE else gets the opportunity to join the defender.
"Denounce" (you get to attack after a determined time, and the war is limited to the accumulation of certain amounts of war score or conquest, to prevent total KOs
These are just some ideas, but the goal of a system would be to prolong conflicts and political drama to more than just quick extinction of the losing side and will provide a more rich ingame history and lore more akin to the complex and more "civilized" limited conflicts of European history. Someone on the discord brought up sec levels akin to Eve, and I think Phoenix's suggestion fits well there. Similarly someone else mentioned that if wars lasted longer, people would have a chance to intervene and perhaps come to the aid of the defender before they're totally wiped, if say, some galactic bully is running around being a warmonger. This also prolongs the universe and presents some checks against one empire snowballing and taking over, while still allowing more conflict on the outer "frontier" sector. I would also add, perhaps, that maybe this full PvP space has greater quality resources, to compensate for the extra risk of settling in this area.
Concur on the desire for a more complex war mechanic in the semi-civilized space. Perhaps that could be iterated later. I didn't mention it in order to keep it simple, but I would be all for it.
I also like the idea of making "uncivilized" or frontier space more desirable by making the resources better.
I really think a system like this will be the best mix of giving that "box universe" feel while maintaining the freedom to go do as you wish that Haxus (and I would as well) would like to maintain.
RE: 2022-01-13 FYI - Giovanni - 01-15-2022
Happy to hear that this is coming back!