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+--- Thread: 2019-06-25 XML Star Map Nerf, Transporter Crash (/showthread.php?tid=786)
2019-06-25 XML Star Map Nerf, Transporter Crash - Haxus - 06-25-2019
XML Star Map Nerf
A primary design goal of SoH was to present a game space so vast that it could not be dominated by one single player or faction. The XML output of the star map breaks that design goal. One single player, using a network of listening posts, is able to monitor the entire universe for slight changes in the XML output that reveal the presence of new players.
XML export function removed from star map.
Transporter Crash
An attempt to transport to a fence caused a server to crash.
Fixed crash when a fence, using a built-in fence style, is a transporter target.
Removed fences from the list of buildings presented as transporter targets.
RE: 2019-06-25 XML Star Map Nerf, Transporter Crash - expert700 - 06-25-2019
(06-25-2019, 04:26 PM)Haxus Wrote: XML Star Map Nerf
A primary design goal of SoH was to present a game space so vast that it could not be dominated by one single player or faction. The XML output of the star map breaks that design goal. One single player, using a network of listening posts, is able to monitor the entire universe for slight changes in the XML output that reveal the presence of new players.
XML export function removed from star map.
-snip-
Haxus, being able to export the star map XML and use programs to search through it for resources was a pretty integral part of the game. Couldn't you have changed the information in it so that we can't abuse it to find players anymore but can still use it for finding resources? When you're running a large empire looking around for the resources you need in-game can be very clunky, and I think every player who has expanded to more than a few systems has used external programs to scan through for resources.
RE: 2019-06-25 XML Star Map Nerf, Transporter Crash - Vectorus - 06-25-2019
Hang on, doesn't this break the ability to search and sort resources through our third party programmes? That seems like pretty much the only way to actually locate anything worth having in the game...
Exporting that XML allows us to do the single most critical thing that the game does not itself do for us. Ultimately, I can see XML being redundant if the game itself can display and filter information about systems, but right now it's all but indispensable! This change seems to be like fixing your damp problem by burning the house down :p
Is there a middle path that lets us find resources but doesn't give away exploitable info?
RE: 2019-06-25 XML Star Map Nerf, Transporter Crash - Deantwo - 06-25-2019
(06-25-2019, 04:26 PM)Haxus Wrote: Transporter Crash
An attempt to transport to a fence caused a server to crash.
Fixed crash when a fence, using a built-in fence style, is a transporter target.
Removed fences from the list of buildings presented as transporter targets.
Can you also move fences to the "road and landscaping" top-down view overlay? Also make the icons small like streetlamps. Having a lot of fences can be really annoying.
(06-25-2019, 04:26 PM)Haxus Wrote: XML Star MapNerf
A primary design goal of SoH was to present a game space so vast that it could not be dominated by one single player or faction. The XML output of the star map breaks that design goal. One single player, using a network of listening posts, is able to monitor the entire universe for slight changes in the XML output that reveal the presence of new players.
XML export function removed from star map.
This seems like the wrong way to fix a much greater issue. The issue has never been the starmap XML export.
The biggest issues are that "explored" systems stay "explored" forever, and emission detection range is quite far.
I mentioned these issues in a couple of suggestion threads a while back.
Here: (Suggestion thread) Fog of War
And here: (Suggestion thread) Deep Space Radar Counter
All not having the XML export will do, is make the starmap a much bigger chore to use than before.
Unless you want to spend an unimaginable amount of time trying to make starmap and survey results much much easier to use, in an every evolving way.
RE: 2019-06-25 XML Star Map Nerf, Transporter Crash - Vectorus - 06-25-2019
I can't think of any exploit which would let you find people using the XML, which wouldn't also let you find them (slowly) using the Starmap itself. For example, if you have enough listening posts, just scroll down the list looking for yellow detections - that's pretty easy. If you have thousands of systems in your list, it's slow, but still easy.
All the XML does is let you sort through the Starmap more quickly, for intended or unintended purposes. Unfortunately, the intended purposes are so important that removing it seems fairly catastrophic...and leaves the unintended purposes still operative, just slower and more cumbersome. So the design goal would remain defeated, wouldn't it? Am I missing something here?
RE: 2019-06-25 XML Star Map Nerf, Transporter Crash - Haxus - 06-25-2019
Ok, I'll put it back without the "contacted systems" or their signal strengths shown.
RE: 2019-06-25 XML Star Map Nerf, Transporter Crash - Vectorus - 06-25-2019
Thanks for listening to us Haxus, that seems like a good start.
Presumably the problem of being unable to hide remains, it's just rather a pain to scroll through the in-game list for the entire universe? I'm not sure that would stop people with a certain mindset...
After all, the target is highlighted in bright yellow XD
RE: 2019-06-25 XML Star Map Nerf, Transporter Crash - Oggal - 06-25-2019
That seems best. Removing sections of the exported XML would be a better move than removing the ability to look at so much data in an organized manor
RE: 2019-06-25 XML Star Map Nerf, Transporter Crash - Haxus - 06-25-2019
I would prefer to add the functionality to the star map that you get from the 3rd party program. Then that capability is available to everyone, without using outside tools.
RE: 2019-06-25 XML Star Map Nerf, Transporter Crash - Vectorus - 06-25-2019
Of course that would be best in the end.
I'm not sure that Mortius, for example, was even using the XML to find people. Right now if you build enough listening posts, all you have to do is look for yellow dots. Perhaps more ways to hide and conceal emissions?
To solve the problem of everyone being findable, we would need to (1) alter the emissions system, since that's the only thing that counts towards that (2) make sure that if it's impossible to find anyone you like, it's a lot easier to track people who directly attack you. Otherwise nomad griefer empires would rule the roost again. Perhaps beefing up defensive options would be better, so that hiding isn't so important...in the end meeting people is what a multiplayer game is about!
Of course if you really don't want to be found, all you have to do is point in a direction and keep warping for a week or so. That's never going to be in anyone's detection range.