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more creature abilities with new designer - Hannibal - 11-05-2018
btw old member, new account, im revann1.
when the new designer comes out, i think it would be vital to take advantage and add more abilities that a species can have, with their respective ability points as well so no race is OP.
for example, you can have wings, you can plant parasites, disease, etc, but if there were more abilities that really differentiate a specie from another, it would give more lore behind each and every civilization.
- More than one advance ability can be picked, mixed and match, but if you pick too much youll probably end up with a weak tiny creature unable to walk & grab anything
a few examples of "advanced abilities" would be:
Parasitic Mounting: This would consist of being able to "Mount" any sentient creature with your new biologic weapon, but instead of just being able to "control movement", your entire character, including your inventory, will be replaced by the creature you just mounted, and you control that creature. the requirements are of course being small enough to do this act, relative to the creature you are trying to "control". dismounting that creature will kill it. ofcourse, this ability would take an enormous amount of points, so youd have to discard size, strength, speed, endurance, health, etc in order to do this.
- Making a delay to the mounting process, meaning a delay after you mount the victim in order to control him/her, would make the ability less expensive. can choose from instantly, to 5 hours.
- as a avatar, if you die when you are mounted on a host, you will spawn as your regular creature.
- if you parasitically mount a avatar, the avatar will respawn after being successfully controlled by the parasite, therefore you can mount a player again and again after you die.
- not being able to dismount from the host would also make it less expensive.
AI Issues With Ability: having this ability would change how AI soldiers fight, creatures that have this ability and are in your military would automatically have to be equipped this "parasitic mount" weapon automatically so they can find a strong host first before they fight.
this would make military with a host more valueble than regular soldiers (parasites without hosts), so storing them in storage ships & transfering them to the right ships & guard posts will be important, and would be a hassle no doubt. but FUN
Combat: during combat this one will be tricky, AI would just run up to the victim, and hit it with the ability, but if they have beserk trance they will activate it before & run faster / have more health, certainly would be interesting to see.
some examples would be:
- The Flood from the Halo Universe.
- "Xenomorphs" from the "Alien" Franchise.
[url=<blockquote][/url]
![[Image: HLHbH55.jpg]](https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HLHbH55.jpg)
Berserk Trance: A Berserk Trance would let that creature enter a state where their HP and speed temporarily increases to higher levels, call it flight or fight, but a much-exaggerated flight or fight. it would be as a weapon, you equip it, then click it and it would be a temporary buff.
AI Issues with Ability: The only issues I see is AI just equip their weapon and shoot, I suggest if a creature has this ability, that creature would be rescripted to activate it before fighting, as well as run around during a fight, basically be beserk during their beserk trance. this would differentiate martial civilizations from other ones.
Combat: In combat, they will prove to be more effective, but the creature would have to sacrifice health, ability to not wield a weapon (Advance ability detailed below), or ability to reach TL ( advanced ability detailed below)
some examples would be:
- Orks from Warhammer 4000 Universe.
- Wookies from Star Wars
- Brutes from Halo Universe
![[Image: HLHcJfL.jpg]](https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HLHcJfL.jpg)
Night Vision: Having Nightvision would give you a equipment which you click on as if it were a knife that you always have, but it activates a temporary buff that lets you see during the night.
AI basically already have night vision :)
Can't think of any Examples.
![[Image: HLHd8PU.jpg]](https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HLHd8PU.jpg)
Queens: (VERY expensive, will not be able to afford important abilities & decent size) A Host Queen would be a equipment that lets you transform when clicked, there is a delay of several hours once clicked, and only females can become queens. it increases the size of your creature by a lot, as well as gives you an extra equipment in your toolbelt which lets you spawn creatures of your own species, (ONLY while in a ship with empty berths, if not it will not work) hurting your health while it does that, so you better have a medkit while you spam it. if a creature of an empire that builds a city has this advanced ability, the city will spawn a city queen at the capitol automatically, but it will not spawn any creatures, it only allows the city to have citizens, therefore to have citizens, you must build a capitol first, it would work as a farm, which spawns domesticated creatures.
- Military HQ Queen, having a Military HQ queen will make it more expensive, but this will spawn queens in your Military HQ which will quickly populate the military in that planet, so you can have military guarding/manning defenses quicker.
- having a cooldown will make the ability less expensive. the more cooldown, the more significant the less expense.
- being restrained & not being able to move as a queen will make it less expensive, and will require AI to bring the queen food every so often from nearby.
- to produce demi avatars & avatars, you can only Mount Queens. so for species with this ability, regular reproduction needs to be rescripted.
AI Issues with ability: AI creatures with that ability in the military would have to be rescripted to have a command in the crew commands to "become queen" (would do nothing if creature doesn't have ability) only 1 crew member in a crew can be queen, and it has to be a soldier berth. if not that creature will not be able to. If a player captain clicks the crew command button on a female soldier to become a queen, she will become the queen of that crew. A crew queen CANNOT spawn creatures outside of a ship, as the point of it is to fill berths renewably, the only way to track it would be killing the ship... that queen would then spam the creature spawn equipment until the crew is full or if a crew member dies, then it immediately spawns a new creature, filling the respective empty berths. meaning opponents/enemies would have to find the queen by tracking the origin ship and killing the queen.
Combat: The purpose of this ability is it gives a civilization a different strategy rather than to use regular marine soldiers, this ability would be too expensive to as well afford to be able to reach Full TL, or being able to use weapons, so they will certainly have disadvantages. one thing is certain, this ability combine with the parasitic mount ability can be deadly, but the citizens would not be able to reach high TL levels to afford that combination (Reaching TL abilities & Using man-made weapon abilities detailed below.) but the key is it would give you a renewable supply of creature AI to fight with while in an invasion, unless they kill your ship, which is your key as the newly spawned creatures need a berth. so basically, Ships owned by creatures of this ability as also Hives. and Capitol's would be the "Hive" of the city.
Some examples of creatures that have this ability would be:
- Yanme'e from the Halo Universe. (not the flood)
- "Xenomorphs" from the "Alien" Franchise.
![[Image: HLHejOl.png]](https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HLHejOl.png)
Reachable Tech Level: This ability would be the Max by default, so new players do not get confused, but you can decrease your reachable Tech level to allow you to have higher ability points to purchase the above abilities. in order for your species to not be overpowered, you would need to set your ability to reach TL lower than regular if you want other advanced abilities.
AI Issues with ability: simply, TL would need to be rescripted to take into consideration a species' reachable tech level, although stealing weapons and equipment from another species is always an option, which is why this is ability, is cheap.
Able to use Man-made weapons (very expensive): This ability lets your species have the cognition and intellect to be able to use manmade weapons, by default every creature has it, if a species does not have it, it has a lot of ability points to use on other abilities. Technically speaking, when you equip a gun, or a knife, or any tool not native to the creature's biology to damage, it will not show the damage option.
AI Issues with ability: simply put AI without this ability would not be able to use the damage mode of any weapon other than their biological weapon, although, with parasitic mounting, you can control another creature, who can use a weapon, and so can your AI.
Some examples of creatures that DO NOT have this ability would be:
- The Flood from the Halo Universe.
- "Xenomorphs" from the "Alien" Franchise.
- Actual Dragons from any type of fiction
Exploits
For those players who think finding an exploit is a astounding discovery, all new features will have their possible exploits, the issue will not be the exploit, but how to fix it. for example, lets talk about the following possible exploits:
Multiple Empire DNA exploit: Creating multiple characters of the same empire with different abilities, could be controlled by simply :
1) implementing the "Biolab" building, basically, a designer for new characters with different abilities, which will newly spawn here. This Biolab will need a certain tech level to even build. haxus would decide if he decides to implement this feature with the new designer.
2) Without the "Biolab" you can create a character normally, but it should restrict you from changing amount of limbs, arms, body compositions, race (glabrian, avian, etc) and abilities.
Creating new random characters just to teleport them to your location and use them. This exploit can be restricted by restricting teleportation by berth to a certain tech level as well, I always believe characters should not just teleberth anywhere just like that anyways. Restriction to a certain Tech Level would solve that perfectly, you will either have to look for that new character you randomly created, which rewards for that trouble, or get that civilization to a certain tech level to be able to teleport, which in my opinion is worth the trouble as well.
sure, being able to fix these exploits require restriction in certain aspects, for example being able to create any type of secondary race for an empire, but I think its worth having this idea implemented. and let's be honest, did we as a human race start with orcs and elves next to us? no lol, each civilization should logically start with 1 race anyway.
i have more abilities such as shapeshifting, but i will post them later, let me know what you guys think below and if you can see these abilities actually being implemented.
RE: more creature abilities with new designer - AnrDaemon - 11-09-2018
So, tech tree, but in character creation. Same issues apply.
Players will be compelled to create at least one character with each advantageous trait.
RE: more creature abilities with new designer - nightslaysanta - 11-10-2018
cant have a diverse empire? HOW DARE YOU! anrdaemon
RE: more creature abilities with new designer - Hannibal - 11-11-2018
I really don’t get why some people list problems that can’t be easily solved and make a solid good idea on a feature already in development look like a bad idea, instead of forming new ideas on how to solve them.
this exploit, like any exploit, can easily Be solved by simply requiring a certain tech level, cost, and a new building - bio lab, to create creatures of the same empire with different abilities. Which is perfectly fine to do once you have previous requirements.
Without previous requirements, Empire DNA can only be one creature, unless they come from a foreign empire. Or An empire can create characters with exact same abilities.
See how easy a problem can be solved with critical thinking? ?
If an empire tries to make vassals with empires of different abilities, they will have to find each empire on their native planet, which is work that equals the reward in my opinion, and not an exploit, though i still think empires' start should still be completely random
Post Updated with exploit fixes.
RE: more creature abilities with new designer - AnrDaemon - 11-11-2018
Exploits can't be fixed by making them cost more. If the cost was the only problem, it was not an exploit, merely an oversight.
But this is not an exploit, it's plain game design problem.
There's no more tech levels, if you forgot. And you can join any empire with any creature.
If you forbid people joining empires by some arbitrary criteria, they would just create multiple empires.
See, how easy your arbitrary restrictions can be metagamed?
RE: more creature abilities with new designer - Hannibal - 11-11-2018
(11-11-2018, 06:44 AM)Hey You Hey AnrDaemon Wrote: Exploits can't be fixed by making them cost more. If the cost was the only problem, it was not an exploit, merely an oversight.
But this is not an exploit, it's plain game design problem.
There's no more tech levels, if you forgot. And you can join any empire with any creature.
If you forbid people joining empires by some arbitrary criteria, they would just create multiple empires.
See, how easy your arbitrary restrictions can be metagamed?
Lol no I don’t becouse you failed to fully read my post. Read the end. And thanks for taking the time to.
There still is tl just not the same system, didn’t understand why you overcomplicated something simple.
If you don’t like the idea of having a cost for secondary dna creatures with multiple abilities thats you disagreeing with it, which is perfectly fine, but saying it doesn’t fix the exploit is ignorant and plain denial-to-look-smart in my opinion, as even my 5 year old could understand how it balances the cost with the result.
Criticism is great and I can take, but plain deniability without reason to look good or whatever the reason, is ignorant and childish, please explain your answers further to convince me otherwise, thanks, and ps I’m sure you’re a chill dude, but I don’t see how what you wrote has logic behind its meaning
RE: more creature abilities with new designer - Deantwo - 11-11-2018
Yeah the old "TL" number don't exist anymore, a new technology system might be implemented on a later date.
If you want to restrict technological advancement in the game by species DNA the whole empire species mechanics will have to be changed and restricted in some horrible ways.
Currently any avatar of any species can join the same empire, and species of a city/building is determined by the avatar building it. This allows for multi-species empires in some way.
I would love to see it changed to something similar to Stellaris' immigration/citizen policy system, so we can simply define which species we want to appear in cities and such. But that might be a bigger wish than necessary at the moment, since species DNA doesn't affect much more than NPC health.
See: http://hazeron.com/mybb/showthread.php?tid=408
As for the bersker trance and parasite stuff, combat as it is in Hazeron right now is not all that fun. I don't see how enemies running around you and hitting you is any fun, animals do this and they can be a real pest. So while they might be fun for the attacker, the defending player will likely hate both.
As for your dislike of teleporting, that is a necessary evil to allow new players that wanna play together to get to each other. You don't even have to use port-a-berth anymore, a teleport feature was added to make it easier for new players.
See: http://hazeron.com/wiki/index.php/Teleport
This thread does remind me of this old thread:
http://hazeron.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7210
RE: more creature abilities with new designer - Hannibal - 11-11-2018
(11-11-2018, 11:44 AM)Deantwo Wrote: Yeah the old "TL" number don't exist anymore, a new technology system might be implemented on a later date.[quote pid='1715' dateline='1541936640']
If you want to restrict technological advancement in the game by species DNA the whole empire species mechanics will have to be changed and restricted in some horrible ways.
Currently any avatar of any species can join the same empire, and species of a city/building is determined by the avatar building it. This allows for multi-species empires in some way.
I would love to see it changed to something similar to Stellaris' immigration/citizen policy system, so we can simply define which species we want to appear in cities and such. But that might be a bigger wish than necessary at the moment, since species DNA doesn't affect much more than NPC health.
See: http://hazeron.com/mybb/showthread.php?tid=408
As for the bersker trance and parasite stuff, combat as it is in Hazeron right now
is not all that fun. I don't see how enemies running around you and hitting you is any fun, animals do this and they can be a real pest. So while they might be fun for the attacker, the defending player will likely hate both.
As for your dislike of teleporting, that is a necessary evil to allow new players that wanna play together to get to each other. You don't even have to use port-a-berth anymore, a teleport feature was added to make it easier for new players.
See: http://hazeron.com/wiki/index.php/Teleport
This thread does remind me of this old thread:
http://hazeron.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7210
[/quote]
True yeah makes sense, same here, Stellaris immigration restrictions are good, but I just thought placing these restrictions would make the sci fi universe more akin to sci fi fiction, but it depends on each players’ taste I guess.
I think this is why haxus should make polls to see what majority players would like is the solution imo. Thanks for taking the time to actually read it though.