+- Hazeron Forums (https://hazeron.com/mybb)
+-- Forum: Shores of Hazeron (https://hazeron.com/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Cantina (https://hazeron.com/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=12)
+--- Thread: Steam (/showthread.php?tid=438)
RE: Steam - Minty - 12-12-2018
Yeah! We're here because we're passionate, too! I think most of us would be willing to pitch in a little on the moderation and helping newbies without expecting payment, hahah.
And on the graphics... hey! Don't beat yourself up about it. As you said, most games have hundreds of people working on them. You could not have gotten this far into development if you were as focused on graphics as most other studios.
However, you've also made it clear plenty of times that you fully intend to upgrade the visuals, and maybe even hire some artists some day. I'd say that fits exactly into the general idea of Early Access - they're generally games that work, but aren't polished, and will continue to be updated after being purchased. I'll respect your decision on that, though. I do think the game has far more content than most Early Access games. Just... maybe clarify somewhere on the page that you'll continue updating the graphics and everything, eh? :P
RE: Steam - Ikkir Isth - 12-12-2018
Oh, as a reminder: nows a good time to do a game and site mini security audit too.
RE: Steam - Vectorus - 12-12-2018
I'm glad you're prepared, Haxus. As long as you're happy and have no illusions about people's charity, let's go ahead - I trust the game will speak for itself, in the end: even No Man's Sky is starting to manage that, simply because the developers were thick-skinned enough to keep at it. We certainly won't have a hype problem. If one game survives from this generation for archaeologists to discover, I hope it's Hazeron: this is what 21st century man dared to dream.
I don't know enough about the culture to explain the desire for blood. Perhaps the advertising cycle presents a great many franchises as things we are now supposed to like by default, and people are pushing back. We're expected to go buy the new Fallout because it's Fallout, not because it was pitched to us in an engaging and intelligent way. it feels a little insulting.
You've previously said you'd be against a reset unless the playerbase was more or less unanimous. Well, I don't want to be that guy from Up! standing between his little old house and the bulldozers. But I don't want a reset. My reasons are selfish, but I hope not unreasonable: I've put a lot of time and money into the game, developed emotional affections for certain places and things. I enjoy playing immensely and pay my subscription. A lot of people who want a reset don't enjoy the game as it stands and don't currently subscribe. I understand it's good business to try to appeal to them - as the energy companies try to do - but it can also feel a little like you're being penalized for loyalty. I had a huge amount of work wiped when the blueprint restrictions were introduced. I sucked it up and rebuilt on the often stated understanding that no reset was envisaged - I'm getting too old for the old one-two.
What are the main reasons for a reset?
-Some empires are too powerful, no free competition. Not that important: you can always start remote. There's enough unused space for ten Weltreichs out there. Mortius is bored with his stuff anyway. If he surrenders 90% to pirates or deletes it, the next biggest empires only have a 100 planets. Nowadays you can colonize that much in a couple of weeks. A free-for-all early game will only reveal the unbalanced combat, conquest and territory systems currently in place, anyway. Personally, I think you want to keep Steam players away from combat as much as possible until it's had another pass. It's one of our least polished systems.
-Old designer stuff looks ugly. But old cities decay and spacecraft die. A reset accelerates that process by maybe a few months. So what? Old vehicles and old items are going to get their foot in the reset door, anyway. Creatures and plants will be more difficult phase out without a total reset - they'll be bound to existing planets. If it's neatness you're after, better to wait until the whole generation cycle we're currently in to be finished, rather than resetting halfway between buildings and vehicles.
-System generation etc. These are the important things. But for anyone not right in the heart of the Eastern Cluster, they bother you maybe once per year, if that. It's worth changing, sure, but most people, certainly most new players, will never notice. Slap on a warning that Easter Cluster systems are more volatile, and you've given it due consideration. All the player needs to do is build a shed...
If I'm outvoted, then I'm outvoted, no hard feelings, but I'm not going to change my vote unless the people who want a reset are willing to club together and buy me out for all the time I spent scanning, measuring, modelling and colonizing to get where I am now. You guys got a couple of hundred dollars lying around? I bought an extra account, that's how much I'm enjoying this round...I understand the position of those who want this, but for myself I rely on Haxus' undertaking that he will only reset with effective unanimity. I'm digging my heels in this time.
If we can reach a compromise: there are so many galaxies, why not take a few -even the majority - of the barely used ones and make them into a new discontinuity, taking advantage of the recent advances and as a clean slate for new and returning players? That would give the best deal to new players without prejudice to the old ones who like things the way they are now. We could talk about merging them further down the line..
I took so long to post that I missed some of the rest of the discussion. Going through it now.
Lots of us are willing to help without compensation, just as we would be willing to donate without receiving a particular benefit, if you let us.
You think of yourself as a businessman, and you are, for sure. But you are also an artist (even if not a graphical one). Hazeron is an artwork that stands on a par with Asimov's best stories. Your lines of code elicit an emotional reaction just as Dante's lines of poetry do. We are your friends first and your customers second, but we are also your patrons. We are paying you because we believe your art deserves to exist, not only in recompense for your labour and materials. We are willing to help you for free not because you stand to profit, but because it is ultimately better that Hazeron should exist than that it shouldn't: and when we are all dead, it will be better that Hazeron once existed than that it didn't. That will always be the case, please don't forget it!
RE: Steam - Mr. Mortius - 12-12-2018
Shores of Hazeron has always operated in a cyclic manner, with most universes lasting about two years I think. This universe may be the longest lived already. I fully intend to leverage the existing might of my empire to eliminate any new steam players, if that is a factor in considering a reset. Scanning outposts are spread around the galaxy, so starting remote is no protection, and new players won't know to do that anyways. Combat and territory are not inherently unbalanced as they are when all empires involved have roughly equal amounts of infrastructure.
I am definitely not bored of what I have built, and if anyone has invested a lot in the game I think I qualify. While Weltreich has over 1200 cities currently spread across most of the galaxies and over a third of all existing officered fleet ships, I recognize that a refresh of the galactic scene, possible a little while before the steam release, would bring new life to the game and help prevent the massive existing disparities in power from affecting the game experience. I've put work in, with some locations in my empire dating back to the start of this cycle in 2015. Time for a fresh slate.
RE: Steam - Vectorus - 12-12-2018
If balance is the principal issue, a new conflict discontinuity would, as I say, give new people a level playing field without wiping out hundreds of dollars' worth of work for those who in no way consent to or welcome a reset. You know as well as I do that combat is heavily unbalanced in favour of people who have learned how the systems work. Really, are you telling me a Steam player on day one is going to have a fair chance against a day one Weltreich critical-hit machine? It will be unbalanced whichever way we do it: better that it be unbalanced without eradicating everything those of us who enjoy building have built.
Hazeron has had many resets before because it was a young game with a rapid development cycle. It cannot, surely, be our intention to keep periodically wiping out work for no real reason other than some people's boredom...I believe Haxus has said many times that this universe was begun with specific intention of ending it - certainly not with the intention of instituting a permanently cyclic pattern.
Ok, you intend to kill everyone. Consider that you could just...not do that. And if you can't restrain yourself now, do believe you can restrain yourself from bringing your complete knowledge of the combat systems to bear against players in a fully reset universe?
RE: Steam - expert700 - 12-12-2018
(12-12-2018, 07:25 PM)Vectorus Wrote: If balance is the principal issue, a new conflict discontinuity would, as I say, give new people a level playing field without wiping out hundreds of dollars' worth of work for those who in no way consent to or welcome a reset. You know as well as I do that combat is heavily unbalanced in favour of people who have learned how the systems work. Really, are you telling me a Steam player on day one is going to have a fair chance against a day one Weltreich critical-hit machine?
Hazeron has had many resets before because it was a young game with a rapid development cycle. It cannot, surely, be our intention to keep periodically wiping out work for no real reason other than some people's boredom...I believe Haxus has said many times that this universe was begun with specific intention of ending it - certainly not with the intention of instituting a permanently cyclic pattern.
Ok, you intend to kill everyone. Consider that you could just...not do that. And if you can't restrain yourself now, do believe you can restrain yourself from bringing your complete knowledge of the combat systems to bear against players in a fully reset universe?
Many games wipe commonly precisely because of people's boredom! Let's take Ark and Rust as an example, two games where servers reset commonly. You build up, and it's exciting when everyone is competing for resources and power towards the start. As the game progresses though, people just fortify more and more, large groups get wiped out, and inevitably you end up with a server with one big zerg clan that constantly wipes out new empires. That's not far off from the situation in Hazeron right now.
It's not a bad thing to regularly wipe a game server. It's a perfectly valid way to keep people playing.
RE: Steam - Mr. Mortius - 12-12-2018
Why would I consider not doing that? I want to. With a reset, people would have a chance of fighting back, and I'd definitely feel less inclined to conquer empires when my own is small and there's less of a chance for each empire to pose a future problem. If all I have is some cluster in the middle of nowhere, there's no motivation for me to go attack that empire growing alarmingly fast on the other side of the galaxy.
Most likely, there won't be another chance for a reset within the next few years. Let's take the opportunity and use it to fix some important issues before hundreds of people have invested that much into the game, rather than just one or two.
RE: Steam - Vectorus - 12-12-2018
I feel disturbingly like someone threatened with eminent domain...
RE: Steam - Mr. Mortius - 12-12-2018
The WGF claimed half a galaxy too little.
RE: Steam - Haxus - 12-12-2018
Vectorus Wrote:It cannot, surely, be our intention to keep periodically wiping out workYou are right on here; thank you for ringing the bell. It goes against the intention of Hazeron to ever reset the universe because it was intended to persist indefinitely. A reset should be done only due to unavoidable necessity, not as a mere convenience.
I think I can fix the system regen problem without resetting the universe.
I will amend my post in the updates section. It is still a good idea to do those things but a reset should not be inevitable, or expected. I will make every effort to avoid a reset.