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+--- Thread: Kindly revert to the old(old) style cities and spacecraft (/showthread.php?tid=2539)
RE: Kindly revert to the old(old) style cities and spacecraft - Celarious - 12-31-2020
I agree, I far preferred the old designer and cities but if that's absolutely not an option, then he should give us a more "basic mode" on the new designers
RE: Kindly revert to the old(old) style cities and spacecraft - Norm49 - 12-31-2020
I say it before and I will say it again, combine the 2 designer. We would be able to make a ship with the old still designer and finishing it with the new one. It will make the process a lot faster.
RE: Kindly revert to the old(old) style cities and spacecraft - Deantwo - 12-31-2020
(12-31-2020, 09:29 PM)Norm49 Wrote: I say it before and I will say it again, combine the 2 designer. We would be able to make a ship with the old still designer and finishing it with the new one. It will make the process a lot faster.
I like it the other way around better.
Create the hull with the new-style designer, but create the interior with something similar to the old-style designer.
The new designer isn't bad, but making the interiors is too complex. Manually making doors and walk-paths create too many issues.
RE: Kindly revert to the old(old) style cities and spacecraft - QuakeIV - 01-01-2021
I think new style exterior and old style interior would be a lot better (so to be clear i agree with dean and i think also norm).
I feel the need to note however that 'combining them' is not necessarily particularly practical and doing that job in my opinion would most likely require completely re-implementing the old style designer tools into the new ship designer system (which it appears to me doesn't share much of anything in common with the old designer), rather than getting to re-use the old code and everything being fairly easy.
The old code could reasonably serve as a reference design which already has a lot of important design decisions already made which would potentially make things easier (it is known to be a fairly solid system, so an equivalent one would presumably be equally as effective and usable without requiring huge amounts of rework to make it usable) but it would likely (emphasis on likely) be a pretty huge amount of work to actually do.
RE: Kindly revert to the old(old) style cities and spacecraft - Wincil - 01-01-2021
I don't see how new style exterior and old style interior would be a lot better
tbh. I think both new style exterior and new style interior designer should be made easier to use.
Old style had huge drawbacks to usability.
I think its better to have creative freedom then less for the sake of balance.
RE: Kindly revert to the old(old) style cities and spacecraft - Crabman - 01-02-2021
The planets and skies look better, but the lack of city lights makes settlements look dead from orbit.
The designers are "not good", Haxus' "Designer 1 - Designing a Basic Spacecraft" is 44 minutes long.
If you're not willing to waste days fighting with the designer, you're left with whatever designs a few kind souls are willing to throw in the Blueprint Exchange.
The meta way is to just make giant cubes, but at that point you might as well just go play Stellaris or whatever.
Also, allowing foreign 3d assets to be imported gives birth to buildings like the Cities: Skylines set.
Try landing in the middle of a city built with those and watch your frames drop.
RE: Kindly revert to the old(old) style cities and spacecraft - Norm49 - 01-02-2021
Me and Deantwo are saying the same ting it is just not in the same order. I do interior fist then exterior so i am sure my interior fit inside the ship . He is doing it the other ways around. It is like if you say you do the engine room then the bridge but i do the bridge then the engine room. All the tools are available we are just not using them at the same time.
RE: Kindly revert to the old(old) style cities and spacecraft - QuakeIV - 01-03-2021
(01-01-2021, 10:17 PM)Wincil Wrote: I don't see how new style exterior and old style interior would be a lot better
tbh. I think both new style exterior and new style interior designer should be made easier to use.
Old style had huge drawbacks to usability.
I think its better to have creative freedom then less for the sake of balance.
I think that the current interiors are way too unlimited in what you can do with them to the extent that you can make them truly impossible to board. The old style interiors had clear rules and constraints that made competetive gameplay a lot more viable. You could still get up to some real ridiculous nonsense (such as rooms with no doors to try to catch people transporting in) but it wouldnt be invisible wall geometry fuckery.
RE: Kindly revert to the old(old) style cities and spacecraft - Vectorus - 01-03-2021
I take all the points about the old designer's strengths, and I really sympathise, but if I had to choose a designer, I'd choose the current one in a heartbeat. Once upon a time, Hazeron was the only game of its kind. Now we have No Man's Sky, Starmade, Dual Universe, Space Engineers, etc...and Hazeron pretty much has these three selling points, and only these, to make it stand out from the competition:
- The large galaxies and fully modeled solar systems with their many moving and tilting body types. Hazeron is the only actual game - as opposed to physics simulator - that pours as much love into this.
- The high-level city and empire management that lets you build whole towns and nations, rather than just bases.
- The freedom of the new designer to create your own environment.
I really like the idea of allowing easy-paint interiors to be imported to the new designer. But I don't think the new designer should become intrinsically restricted. I have boarded people's ships to see what they looked like - their designers sometimes thought they were impenetrable mazes of fake walls and invisibile holes. Nevertheless, I penetrated them, and sometimes dropped a calling-card. Perhaps boarding in the old designer was easier. But I never used to care enough to try, because I already knew what I was going to find: more empty grey hallways.
And even when interiors are truly impenetrable (and I concede that's maybe possible), does it matter? So Hazeron drifts away from being a combat game into being Second Life in Space. It was never a terrific combat game in the first place. No matter the system, players like Dean, Jack Katogh and myself, will always design logical interiors because we enjoy the fantasy and the balanced fun of fair combat. Players like Mortius will always find glitches to make beating them impossible - if not in the designer, then elsewhere - because that's how they like to play. There's room for both ways. The game already acknowledges this in a major way by having a whole zone with no PvP.
RE: Kindly revert to the old(old) style cities and spacecraft - QuakeIV - 01-04-2021
Yes a whole lifeless zone with almost no activity that exists only so that people whinging about the possibility of combat can go into the carebear box and then immediately quit the game out of boredom.