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Request: Increase file size for ships - Printable Version

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Request: Increase file size for ships - Rockinsince87 - 05-21-2023

Basically increase ship file size limit from 60 MB to 256, 512 MB or whatever. 
Reason? It's selfish, yes, but I would like to be able to build my fancy constitution class refit  Cool

Edit: It's currently at 90MB and I still have the shuttle bay/cargo bay area, three lounges, troop quarters, and crew quarters/officer deck to build!

So pretty please with sprinkles on top?

RE: Request: Increase file size for ships - AnrDaemon - 05-24-2023

Simplify design, remove unnecessary details.

RE: Request: Increase file size for ships - Rockinsince87 - 05-24-2023

(05-24-2023, 10:09 PM)AnrDaemon Wrote: Simplify design, remove unnecessary details.

AnrDaemon, I hope your joking...

We'll yeah that will absolutely fix it, but to what end? Is the objective to produce a game with less details? Was the new ship designer supposed to make things more spartan? I mean what's the point of designing things that we can't make look good..."You can design anything you want as long as it's bland?"

My Hazeron save game right now is ~12 GB in size. 90MB for ship file size is nothing. Heck 1GB would make a happy camper. 
The ship below can be build on the ground and with the hallways it takes up about 27MB...

So until then, dial back the detail???


[Image: Hazeron-Starship-0-Zza-Z7r22k.gif]

RE: Request: Increase file size for ships - Celarious - 05-25-2023

Yep, new designer = simple interior only, just look at the Atlantis, most of the effort goes into the exterior hull

RE: Request: Increase file size for ships - Rockinsince87 - 05-25-2023

(05-25-2023, 11:01 AM)Celarious Wrote: Yep, new designer = simple interior only, just look at the Atlantis, most of the effort goes into the exterior hull

That's all dandy but if it was really that way you would not be able to make detailed interiors per that gif. But honestly all "someone" has to do is increase the file size limit and that's it, you can do whatever after that. As of now it's a single player game so limits of this kind are unnecessary. If ( and I really hope so ) Haxus adds the ability to host, the file size limit is still something that can be much bigger because he will not be hosting it, storage is incredibly cheep. 

The other odd thing about the limit is the compression. After compression it's quite small per the designer ouput information. Ok great, just increase the limit. 

The "new designer = simple interior only" is artificial only at the moment. That interior in the gif I posted took me an hour or two to make inside of the designer using only the tools inside of the designer without any outside tools or programs, and it renders flawlessly when testing.

It's kind of an obvious thing to do, once the game goes public players are going to want to make detailed designs. If they run into this limit that will hurt the game tremendously.

Am I really asking too much? Just let the creators create.

RE: Request: Increase file size for ships - Celarious - 05-25-2023

(05-25-2023, 11:49 AM)Rockinsince87 Wrote:
(05-25-2023, 11:01 AM)Celarious Wrote: Yep, new designer = simple interior only, just look at the Atlantis, most of the effort goes into the exterior hull
The "new designer = simple interior only" is artificial only at the moment. That interior in the gif I posted took me an hour or two to make inside of the designer using only the tools inside of the designer without any outside tools or programs, and it renders flawlessly when testing.

It's kind of an obvious thing to do, once the game goes public players are going to want to make detailed designs. If they run into this limit that will hurt the game tremendously.

Am I really asking too much? Just let the creators create.

It's not artificial because you breached the filesize limit, and also because Haxus has instructed us to only make simple cubic voids because collision calculation is expensive
If anything, the highly detailed interior decoration is artificial, and it feels like the game isn't really designed for those

RE: Request: Increase file size for ships - Rockinsince87 - 05-25-2023

(05-25-2023, 01:05 PM)Celarious Wrote:
(05-25-2023, 11:49 AM)Rockinsince87 Wrote:
(05-25-2023, 11:01 AM)Celarious Wrote: Yep, new designer = simple interior only, just look at the Atlantis, most of the effort goes into the exterior hull
The "new designer = simple interior only" is artificial only at the moment. That interior in the gif I posted took me an hour or two to make inside of the designer using only the tools inside of the designer without any outside tools or programs, and it renders flawlessly when testing.

It's kind of an obvious thing to do, once the game goes public players are going to want to make detailed designs. If they run into this limit that will hurt the game tremendously.

Am I really asking too much? Just let the creators create.

It's not artificial because you breached the filesize limit, and also because Haxus has instructed us to only make simple cubic voids because collision calculation is expensive
If anything, the highly detailed interior decoration is artificial, and it feels like the game isn't really designed for those

It's all just mesh. The voids are literally rectangles that I keep one or two tenths of a meter away from the mesh's to prevent clipping so the details have nothing nothing to do with collision. The AI have no issues pathing the design currently demonstrated. See this design I can build without issues, it's under the limit, the constitution class in the picture thread...yeah...to big... but the AI can path that one too no issues and I'm designing this on a 10 year old computer.  

I do agree it's artificial because it is, literally every game's details are artificial and server no purpose but to provide art and immersion.

RE: Request: Increase file size for ships - Deantwo - 05-25-2023

(05-24-2023, 11:32 PM)Rockinsince87 Wrote:
(05-24-2023, 10:09 PM)AnrDaemon Wrote: Simplify design, remove unnecessary details.

So until then, dial back the detail???

(05-25-2023, 11:49 AM)Rockinsince87 Wrote:
(05-25-2023, 11:01 AM)Celarious Wrote: Yep, new designer = simple interior only, just look at the Atlantis, most of the effort goes into the exterior hull

It's kind of an obvious thing to do, once the game goes public players are going to want to make detailed designs. If they run into this limit that will hurt the game tremendously.

Am I really asking too much? Just let the creators create.

I mean, basically yes.

If the file size limit is increased, it will just take a while for someone to reach that new limit and use your exact same argument. So given enough time, file size limit would be a terabyte and beyond.

This is an issue you get from creative freedom without a baseline. There is no limit to the amount of detail we can make, which means that people will always push the limits. You just happen to one of the first to surpass the limit and find out too late.

What I would say we really need is better examples of the maximum level of detail, or even limits in the designer so people don't go too far. That way people don't fall into the trap of spending a lot of time on details and then finding out they went too far over the limit.

RE: Request: Increase file size for ships - Neils Iyssada - 05-25-2023

Maybe the solution would be to allow oversized file sizes but with limited use. Something like a design limited to your solo game, but can't be shared via workshop, can't be used in a future MP server. Could even add a config option defining the max size for future servers, but workshop would still be no.

RE: Request: Increase file size for ships - Rockinsince87 - 05-25-2023

(05-25-2023, 01:52 PM)Deantwo Wrote:
(05-24-2023, 11:32 PM)Rockinsince87 Wrote:
(05-24-2023, 10:09 PM)AnrDaemon Wrote: Simplify design, remove unnecessary details.

So until then, dial back the detail???

(05-25-2023, 11:49 AM)Rockinsince87 Wrote:
(05-25-2023, 11:01 AM)Celarious Wrote: Yep, new designer = simple interior only, just look at the Atlantis, most of the effort goes into the exterior hull

Am I really asking too much? Just let the creators create.

I mean, basically yes.

If the file size limit is increased, it will just take a while for someone to reach that new limit and use your exact same argument. So given enough time, file size limit would be a terabyte and beyond.

This is an issue you get from creative freedom without a baseline. There is no limit to the amount of detail we can make, which means that people will always push the limits. You just happen to one of the first to surpass the limit and find out too late.

What I would say we really need is better examples of what level of detail is too far. So people don't fall into the trap of spending a lot of time on detail and then finding out they went too far over the limit.

I agree Deantwo, there does need to be a limit of course. No limits = bad  Big Grin . 

Yes I agree that having some base line is a good idea. Finding that balance between size and detail is key. The best way to find out is to experiment. Right now I would say 512MB to 1GB is a good limit at the moment. Again, an experiment would be required to see what 1GB would look like and how it affects the gameplay. 

Just to be clear for others reading this, physical size and data size are not the same. 
Physical size does need a limit yes and data size needs a limit too, building deathstar one shot ships are just silly. Don't get me wrong, you should be able to build them but at a cost. 

Honestly I personally feel that ship size limits should not be artificial and should have other game play elements involved such as upkeep/maintenance costs. Maintenance costs could be calculated from hull volume to keep it simple and could be off set by quality level and "engineering spaces" (yes those do not exist yet but could be added). 

I won't go on because I don't want to go off topic but I just want to make it clear that I am completely thinking about that when I as for the size limit to be increased. It's purely to make the game look better and feel better.
(05-25-2023, 02:35 PM)Neils Iyssada Wrote: Maybe the solution would be to allow oversized file sizes but with limited use. Something like a design limited to your solo game, but can't be shared via workshop, can't be used in a future MP server. Could even add a config option defining the max size for future servers, but workshop would still be no.

Yeah that's not a bad idea either. That could be an option. There are other games just put limits on mod size or general content restrictions. So yes in theory the host could set the limit. Solo, you want to melt your computer, have at it. Workshop can have limits too, yes.