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+--- Thread: Remove EV Helmets (/showthread.php?tid=2214)
Remove EV Helmets - Deantwo - 03-09-2020
I'll just start this thread so we can keep the bug reports on-topic.
See: (Idea thread) Metal EV Helmet doesn't require Cryo Heat Sink
I can't see a reason for having an EV suit be two separate parts, EV Helmet and EV Suit. It doubles the amount of things we need to manufacture without any real benefit.
(03-09-2020, 12:50 AM)Xantheose Wrote: - Having a mix between helmets and armor to mix resistances
Valid reason. Not completely sure how much resistances matter, but valid nontheless.
(03-09-2020, 12:50 AM)Xantheose Wrote: - Crafting helmets of one material and armor of another one because it's less expansive
Verse the idea of only having to manufacture one? I see this as a bad thing.
(03-09-2020, 12:50 AM)Xantheose Wrote: - 2 different loots from troops then you can't build a full stuff to every troop you kill
It does look fun on pirates, I will give you that.
(03-09-2020, 12:50 AM)Xantheose Wrote: - You can getting one broken while the other is ok
This is a negative. Since one is lower durability and will always break first.
Plus you have to keep track of the durability of two separate items rather than just one.
(03-09-2020, 12:50 AM)Xantheose Wrote: - Elec parts quality is based on an average quality, metal isn't
And your metal quality is always gonna be 255, unless you aren't min-maxing, so do show me a mix of reasources that would make a worse helmet than suit.
Of course once we are talking about Magmium or Vulcium that point is moot.
(03-09-2020, 12:50 AM)Xantheose Wrote: - All armors have helmet and armor but EV only armor? No. That's called consistency.
Somewhat true. Anr's old ideas had suggested that we should be able to wear armor underneath the EV suit.
But you know we could just remove armor helmets too. Replace helmets with more purpose filled items. Such as something similar to SS13's security and medical HUDs.
RE: Remove EV Helmets - Nitro2030ce - 03-09-2020
No. Unnecessary change when there are bigger fish to fry.
RE: Remove EV Helmets - Deantwo - 03-09-2020
(03-09-2020, 08:51 AM)Nitro2030ce Wrote: No. Unnecessary change when there are bigger fish to fry. Just leave game-play elements alone, no one is complaining about this "issue" except you.
I in no way said this was a priority over any of the other many pressing issues. It is but a minor thing that has bugged me since Anr first brought up the issue some years ago.
At most I hope Haxus keeps it in mind if he ever goes to redesign how armor and EV suits work.
(03-09-2020, 08:51 AM)Nitro2030ce Wrote: future affordability issue.
...
Durability on a combined suit would be slightly less than two separate parts
You are assuming the manufacturing costs and durability will be merged and not changed? Why would this be an issue at all? Manufacturing costs and durability should probably be rebalanced with such a change anyway.
(03-09-2020, 08:51 AM)Nitro2030ce Wrote: say only your helmet is taking damage, now they both will. Especially when there's potential for positional damage, gotta change the whole suit because someone cracked my visor, or, my visor broke because someone shot at my foot.
Sure positional damage would be cool.
Some players would love to see the EV suit split into further parts, boots, gloves, leggings, etc. But check each little part of your overall EV suit to find out which part broke would be beyond annoying.
By the way, replacing your helmet every time would be moot if we could just repair items. At which point I would rather have to just repair a single item rather than the 5 separate parts of the suit.
(03-09-2020, 08:51 AM)Nitro2030ce Wrote: Personally, I like it and it's fine the way it is and I don't "go around carrying my helmet in my hand".
I mentioned the part about being able to hold your helmet in your hand because that is the only reason Haxus gave last time this was suggested to him.
RE: Remove EV Helmets - AnrDaemon - 03-09-2020
Reason why helmets in their incarnation have to go is simple: it is two items that serve the same purpose, and you MUST have both to achieve the purpose.
Nobody said helmets must be removed from the game as an item, but they should serve a DIFFERENT role, than suits, to be of any real benefit to gameplay.
RE: Remove EV Helmets - plek - 03-09-2020
If there were different types of EV helmets there'd be a reason for them. Not material, rather a cheap helmet that just does what a normal EV helmet does, another helmet that is very heavily armored but reduced visibility, another that gives some sort of enhanced view mode - like a life detector or maybe one that gives you a proper HUD showing sensor data from a local radar or your ship.
Otherwise there doesn't technically need to be a separate helmet from suit because how often do you NOT just use the same material helmet as suit? Does anyone use an EV suit without an EV helmet?
RE: Remove EV Helmets - Xantheose - 03-09-2020
Okay, first, the truth.
(03-09-2020, 06:12 PM)AnrDaemon Wrote: Nobody said helmets must be removed from the game as an item, but they should serve a DIFFERENT role, than suits, to be of any real benefit to gameplay.
(03-08-2020, 09:28 PM)Deantwo Wrote: Can you give a good reason for EV helmets existing? Expect for wanting to hold your helmet in your hand?
I would rather have helmets underneath the EV suit that has purpose, rather than have EV suits be two separate parts with no real reason.
Then, why that?
(03-09-2020, 06:12 PM)AnrDaemon Wrote: Reason why helmets in their incarnation have to go is simple: it is two items that serve the same purpose, and you MUST have both to achieve the purpose.
One give hud, other one light, both give armor and resistances, and the two are required to protect from harsh environments.
Reductio ad absurdum:
>Why making spaceship modules that are requiring only elecs parts, mechanical parts, plastic and metal? Every one serve the same purpose, and you MUST have every to achieve the purpose.
More from previous thread:
- Having a mix between helmets and armor to mix resistances
- Crafting helmets of one material and armor of another one because it's less expansive
- 2 different loots from troops then you can't build a full stuff to every troop you kill
- You can getting one broken while the other is ok
- Elec parts quality is based on an average quality, metal isn't
- All armors have helmet and armor but EV only armor? No. That's called consistency.
Please stop wanting to change last things that works right in hazeron.
RE: Remove EV Helmets - Deantwo - 03-09-2020
(03-09-2020, 07:08 PM)Xantheose Wrote: More from previous thread:
- ...
I already answered those. Read opening post.
(03-09-2020, 07:08 PM)Xantheose Wrote: Please stop wanting to change last things that works right in hazeron.
Why are you so against change? I mean you just want us to go against every idea you have for no reason other than "why change the last things that work right"? You don't know how constructive feedback works, I get it. But then you can just instead not say anything and ignore the idea section.
Change is not a bad thing. And as I already mentioned in this thread, we aren't saying this is a priority over everything else. The most we can hope for is to give Haxus better ideas for when he goes to redesigning this part of the game.
If you don't want change at all, go back to chess or something. Hazeron changes all the time, we are just hoping to steer the river in the right direction.
RE: Remove EV Helmets - Tchou - 03-09-2020
By your reasoning CS:GO would have 4 weapons total, we would all eat potatoes in Minecraft and Factorio wouldn't exist.
Fake complexity is a key component of game design, without this video games would be bland.
Imagine playing CS GO with 4 weapons respectively called "Pistol", "SMG", "Sniper", "Assault Rifle", it would be boring AF.
Why have 2 types of electronic circuits in Factorio when one works just fine?
Beside, why would we have to produce rifles and ammo in Hazeron? Both serve no purpose on their own, might has well combine them right?
What about the tons of food we have at our dispositions? I'd be fine with just vegetables. How about the different diets? It serves no ingame purpose (aside from limiting you)
EDIT : and I'm saying all this as a Game Developer
RE: Remove EV Helmets - Deantwo - 03-09-2020
(03-09-2020, 08:31 PM)Tchou Wrote: By your reasoning CS:GO would have 4 weapons total, we would all eat potatoes in Minecraft and Factorio wouldn't exist.
I don't like CounterStrike, but all the weapons there have different values and work differently, so I don't see how that relates to this discussion at all.
In Minecraft the different crops have different trading purposes and alchemy uses. Even less related to this discussion.
Factorio I haven't played, but I don't see anything related to this discussion there either.
(03-09-2020, 08:31 PM)Tchou Wrote: Beside, why would we have to produce rifles and ammo in Hazeron? Both serve no purpose on their own, might has well combine them right?
One is literally ammunition, so I assume you are trying to make a silly comparison to make everything seem stupid?
Pulling random unrelated examples and trying to say that we would ruin those games if we had them take our suggestions seems pointless.
Instead try to explain why the EV helmets in their current state make sense. What makes them useful as separate items? Why would you ever only have one of the two?
If the manufacturing process for EV suits would create both the suit and the helmet in the same process, it would be less annoying.
RE: Remove EV Helmets - Tchou - 03-09-2020
My main point still applies, its just a matter of diversity. Lets take minecraft armor as an example then, why craft all the four items separately and not make a full set at once? It's exactly the same situation.
The game would be boring as fuck if you were to decomplexify everything.
The current state of the game is already super bad due to oversimplification (I'm looking at you both patents & custom buildings), we don't need to make it worse