Empire Fragility

General discussion about Shores of Hazeron

Re: Empire Fragility

Postby QuakeIV » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:33 pm

AnrDaemon wrote:
OmegaPaladin wrote:Players are not online 24/7. A game where you need people to cover all hours of the day is not going to be very workable.

EVE Online.


Eve doesn't require that...
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Re: Empire Fragility

Postby OmegaPaladin » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:12 pm

QuakeIV wrote:
AnrDaemon wrote:
OmegaPaladin wrote:Players are not online 24/7. A game where you need people to cover all hours of the day is not going to be very workable.

EVE Online.


Eve doesn't require that...


Yeah, if ships did not despawn on logout (after about 15 minutes), no titans would still be alive in Eve.

I believe there is also a mechanic that puts player-run stations into siege mode if they are attacked.
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Re: Empire Fragility

Postby AnrDaemon » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:22 am

Yes, if a POS(and old-style "starbase") is attacked and its shields are brought down, it is going into reinforced mode once for a limited period of time.
When it comes out of reinforced mode, you should refill its shields to 50% before it can cycle the reinforced mode again.
Though, this is no longer relevant, the old POS' system is already being phased out.

But I don't see, how this is all relevant to the discussion about cities.
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Re: Empire Fragility

Postby Deantwo » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:51 pm

AnrDaemon wrote:On a sidenote, the old capture method with gradual loyalty chnage was a better deterrent to the "instant capture", IMO.

This actually has not changed. Loyalty still has to flip before the attacker has "full" control over the captured city. While the city is disloyal it is considered occupied. An occupied city does however appear as owned by the attacker.

The only thing that changed that could cause instant capture (loyalty flip), is if the city has been neglected, or if the attacker kills the entire population (genesis device).
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Re: Empire Fragility

Postby Staines » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:47 am

Rare suggestion from me, since I don't usually comment on this game anymore...

Strengthening of city defences has been tried in the past.
Anything like that just causes more lag as the AI troops and players run around causing mayhem...

I do believe what we really need is some kind of territory claim and war declaration system, where people are quite safe until after an arbitrary war declaration period (Eve has it set as 24 hours) has expired. After that, I believe an empire should have to select a populated system inside enemy territory to "contest". You can't capture any cities in the system until you fill up a "contest meter" on your strategic map.

___

You declare War. You wait 24 hours.
You select the contest system target. It has 5000 loyal population.
Contest points start at 0 / 5000, with a modifier of say, -10 per report for the attacker.

You can fill the contest point meter up two ways;
1. Presence. You get points based on unhangered ship tonnage in the system. 100 kilotons = 1 point. Modified based on difference between defending and attacking tonnage. If the system is empty and you have a ship with 3,000,000 tons in the system you are attacking, you'd get a +20 contest points per report.

You can park ships in the system until the meter fills up and you can start capturing the cities...
-OR-

2. The game randomly generates missions inside the system, for both the defender and attacker. These can be accepted as jobs or something. Missions can be as simple as "patrol within ?km of (x,y,z) to earn an amount of conquest points... or "go here and plant a spy probe for +(x) conquest points per cycle."... or "destroy this station". Defender gets similar things in return to lower conquest points. Defender advantage provided by the natural -10 modifier.


That way, it would be more like a tug-of-war ending in a final assault and flip. Attackers could flip a handful of relatively meaningless, low-population border colonies every night, but actual full fledged systems will take a more concerned effort over a few days.
Last edited by Staines on Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Empire Fragility

Postby OmegaPaladin » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:56 pm

That system sounds interesting and actually fun.

It would also allow for actual meaningful PvE combat - go out and smash a pirate system.
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Re: Empire Fragility

Postby zephar » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:20 pm

Staines wrote:Rare suggestion from me, since I don't usually comment on this game anymore...

Strengthening of city defences has been tried in the past.
Anything like that just causes more lag as the AI troops and players run around causing mayhem...

I do believe what we really need is some kind of territory claim and war declaration system, where people are quite safe until after an arbitrary war declaration period (Eve has it set as 24 hours) has expired. After that, I believe an empire should have to select a populated system inside enemy territory to "contest". You can't capture any cities in the system until you fill up a "contest meter" on your strategic map.

___

You declare War. You wait 24 hours.
You select the contest system target. It has 5000 loyal population.
Contest points start at 0 / 5000, with a modifier of say, -10 per report for the attacker.

You can fill the contest point meter up two ways;
1. Presence. You get points based on unhangered ship tonnage in the system. 100 kilotons = 1 point. Modified based on difference between defending and attacking tonnage. If the system is empty and you have a ship with 3,000,000 tons in the system you are attacking, you'd get a +20 contest points per report.

You can park ships in the system until the meter fills up and you can start capturing the cities...
-OR-

2. The game randomly generates missions inside the system, for both the defender and attacker. These can be accepted as jobs or something. Missions can be as simple as "patrol within ?km of (x,y,z) to earn an amount of conquest points... or "go here and plant a spy probe for +(x) conquest points per cycle."... or "destroy this station". Defender gets similar things in return to lower conquest points. Defender advantage provided by the natural -10 modifier.


That way, it would be more like a tug-of-war ending in a final assault and flip. Attackers could flip a handful of relatively meaningless, low-population border colonies every night, but actual full fledged systems will take a more concerned effort over a few days.


yeah, I was thinking of a similar mechanic reading through this, but seeing you worded it out so well Staines thanks for saving me the time and I can just qoute your post =).
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Re: Empire Fragility

Postby Staines » Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:13 am

Ground combat just lags up the system until it locks up.
Having actual AI troops running around causes major lag due to pathing.

Honestly I'd consider removing it, or having it so that systems that have had their contest meter filled go into some kind of active, instanced state where they are allocated more server resources.

I'm not sure how ground combat should be changed in order to remove troops.
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Re: Empire Fragility

Postby Haxus » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:42 am

Ground combat just lags up the system until it locks up.

One huge contributor to the lag is the buildings. It was one of the biggest factors that forced me to revamp the design system.

Finally, new building designs are on the near horizon.
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Re: Empire Fragility

Postby Staines » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:56 pm

Haxus wrote:
Ground combat just lags up the system until it locks up.

One huge contributor to the lag is the buildings. It was one of the biggest factors that forced me to revamp the design system.

Finally, new building designs are on the near horizon.


Indeed? Good to know you're on top of it. Are you sure AI pathing won't cause issues in the new system? You should perhaps undertake a test and get a large city purely made up of new-design-system buildings and run 24~ troops back and forth through an garrisoned enemy system to see if the system locks up.
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