2017-11-27 Status Buildings

Details about updates to Shores of Hazeron

2017-11-27 Status Buildings

Postby Haxus » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:16 am

New buildings have advanced considerably. There's still a lot of loose ends. I intend to post an update later this week that introduces them, though they will not be fully ready yet.

Here are some interesting highlights of the upcoming change, as it pertains to the construction of cities and the conquest of worlds. Some people will ask if a game reset is in order. There is no need for it. Old cities will continue to function. No game reset is planned as a result of these changes.

Here we go, random thoughts in no particular order.

There is a new construction window that will replace the old one when completed. This one gets blueprints from the new building blueprint exchange and from your gear. A picture of the building is shown when its blueprint is in the exchange.

Buildings are no longer built in levels and levels cannot be added to existing buildings. Homes, jobs, and construction materials are all derived from the blueprint.

A flag is no longer needed to found a city. I am not sure that there is any need for the flag commodity any more.

World resource zones are no longer considered political subdivisions for ownership or population limits. Worlds are now treated as one entity for empire ownership purposes. A single world can no longer be owned by more than one empire. Ringworld arc sections are treated as individual worlds, for ownership purposes.

Buildings can be built anywhere. There is no building that requires placement next to a road or other building. Buildings that require vehicle parking spots or harbors now include them as part of their site blueprint.

Roads facilitate the transfer of goods. You will want to build them. They don't have to be exactly adjacent to buildings to be effective, just within a reasonable proximity.

Some new kinds of buildings were added, not all are implemented yet: fences, walls, drilling platforms, nuclear fuel plant, space elevator. This includes some new structures for adding building construction terrain in interesting places: floating platforms (sea surface), flying platforms (atmospheric), ground platforms (on the ground).

Buildings can be destroyed utterly, when not in the neutral zone. This change will apply to old style cities at some point, enabling their buildings to be destroyed utterly.

The concept of city was rethought. Here is the gist of it. Buildings get built, sometimes together in groups. At some point you want to manage them so you build a capitol building there. Then you build police stations to impose jurisdiction over them. That is how new cities are formed. You build a capitol building to establish government management and you build police stations to define the area of jurisdiction.

Military was separated from city. Military bases now exist, somewhat like a city of their own. Construction of a base begins with a headquarters building. Barracks add population like homes, to operate weapons and shields and things. Military buildings can be built anywhere on the world; there is no proximity requirement to the headquarters building; its jurisdiction is the entire planet.

Each kind of building has a rule for building it. There are six build rules. Alien here means any empire other than your own. There is a window that shows the build rules for every kind of building.
    Civilian - Applies to most buildings. Cannot be built in the police jurisdiction of an alien city. Cannot be built on worlds with alien military HQ.
    Military HQ - Military headquarters cannot be built on a world that has any alien military building.
    Military - Military buildings must be built on worlds with a military HQ.
    Capitol - Cannot be built in the police jurisdiction of any city. Cannot be built on worlds with alien military HQ.
    Police - Police departments create a radius of jurisdiction and they must be built in the police jurisdiction of an empire city or must be built where an empire capitol building is in their jurisdiction.
    City - Must be built in the police jurisdiction of an empire city.
Civilian buildings are immune to destruction as long as there is a military HQ on their world. Military buildings can be destroyed.

A single building or many buildings could now be built on a world, without ever declaring a city. The world would be vulnerable to conquest by the first empire to build a military HQ on that world. Then all buildings on that world would be owned by the military HQ's empire.

Once an HQ is built, military buildings can be built. The HQ and all military buildings must be destroyed for an alien empire to conquer the planet. Then they can build their own HQ and military buildings.

Buildings can exist independent of any city. Some buildings can be formed into a city while leaving other buildings in the wilderness.

It is possible for multiple empires to have cities on the same world, until the first military HQ is built.

Designer has some new parts for buildings. One of them is a site mesh, which describes the building site. It offers a great deal of control over how the terrain is graded, above and below, and how it blends with the native terrain. It is now possible to make houses with walkout basements or backyard pools. It is also possible to make bunkers that are partially buried in a hillside.

That is all I have time for now. I wish I could be posting an update today but it just didn't come together in time. I'll be ready in a few days.
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Re: 2017-11-27 Status Buildings

Postby Onepercent » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:37 am

Nice. These are good changes.
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Re: 2017-11-27 Status Buildings

Postby AnrDaemon » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:37 pm

Some changes are good, but undefined building status just turns the whole idea to management hell.
I don't want to see this implemented.
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Re: 2017-11-27 Status Buildings

Postby Minty » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:49 pm

nice!!! are the custom buildings going to be able to have moving parts like spacecraft have landing gears? id love to make the citadel from half life 2, complete with the whole moving-y bit


by the way, are buildings going to be able to be multi-functional? could we make one gigantic skyscraper do everything a city needs?

also, will the platforms be editable? are there going to be bridges, or can we make our own?

oh gosh, sorry for all the questions, but this is just so exciting! will roads be aditable too? how high do the flying platforms go, can they be built in orbit? do they need power or they'll fall down?
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Re: 2017-11-27 Status Buildings

Postby Vectorus » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:22 pm

Some questions:

Haxus wrote: Old cities will continue to function.


Which, if any, of the listed changes will affect old cities? Will they continue to be cities in the old sense, or will the individual buildings follow the new HQ/Police control rules? Can new and old buildings coexist on a single world, or will old worlds retain the resource zone system?

Haxus wrote: Roads facilitate the transfer of goods


Does this mean we will now have to make sure every building in the process chain is concretely connected to its input & output, contains sufficient storage for its product &c.? Or will declaring a city cause commodities and storage to be pooled as it is now?

For example, we will be able to ringfence metal for use by a spacecraft factory, if we make sure that its source building is not connected to anything else? Do resources arriving by airport/wharf/road arrive at those particular buildings?

Haxus wrote: Military HQ


It seems I can't allow other Empires to set up small embassies or colonies, without the danger that someone will suddenly set up an HQ and steal all my own buildings. Can there be a more in-depth permissions system for this? Perhaps allow buildings to be surrendered to aliens, even when an HQ has been built? Every little way to help players play together is usually good.

AnrDaemon wrote:undefined building status


Which aspect exactly are you referring to? It sounds to me as if building types will still be in force. Or do you mean buildings which don't belong to a city? I wouldn't mind a bit more information on how that will work. Especially emission/detection rules, power grid, loyalty &c.

Looking at your pictures, it would seem that a given blueprint may be used for multiple building types, provided that it meets the structural requirements. Is this correct? Probably a wise choice. I think this is the time to ask for blueprints to be saved with multiple palettes. So that colour and texture can be varied on the fly to reduce visual monotony.

Overall, some promising and rather exciting changes.
Last edited by Vectorus on Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 2017-11-27 Status Buildings

Postby Vectorus » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:31 pm

Haxus wrote:A flag is no longer needed to found a city. I am not sure that there is any need for the flag commodity any more.


But what about the best part of the game?
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Re: 2017-11-27 Status Buildings

Postby AnrDaemon » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:56 pm

Vectorus wrote:
AnrDaemon wrote:undefined building status


Which aspect exactly are you referring to?

I'm referring exactly to management aspect.

It sounds to me as if building types will still be in force. Or do you mean buildings which don't belong to a city? I wouldn't mind a bit more information on how that will work. Especially emission/detection rules, power grid, loyalty &c.

Let's put things into perspective.
Currently, the minimum governed unit is a single city.
Under new system, the obvious answer coming to mind is "entire planet", since "single building" sounds… comical at best, and "city" is an optional status, which may be lost and gained transparently to the rest of the mechanics.
Which mix well with overall globality of SoH, solves a number of past issues and defining a more clear gameplay field.
Which in turn makes the "ad hoc city" idea useless to implement to begin with.
Looking at your pictures, it would seem that a given blueprint may be used for multiple building types, provided that it meets the structural requirements. Is this correct? Probably a wise choice.

That's a terrifying choice. If you can't tell the building type by its look, it greatly taxes the perception.
Imagine all icons on your desktop turned into a generic "application" icon?
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Re: 2017-11-27 Status Buildings

Postby AnrDaemon » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:56 pm

Vectorus wrote:But what about the best part of the game?
https://i.imgur.com/yZFKdBO.gif

I concur.
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Re: 2017-11-27 Status Buildings

Postby AnrDaemon » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:00 pm

In regard to optional roads: I strongly oppose it. Better improve roads to not be a continuous streams, but a chain-like structure with each segment being of fixed length and built independently.
Then you can define maximum height deviation between start and end of the segment, and the length of the segment for each road type, naturally limiting the maximum sloping factor for each road. Which will in turn solve the "trampoline" effect of long roads, since each road segment will align to the planet on its own, as well as limit the cut-through effect on hilly terrain, which is rarely desirable.
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Re: 2017-11-27 Status Buildings

Postby Phenoix12 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:34 pm

Well now my idea to suggest independent military bases is obsolete :D

Also I love most of the new changes coming to buildings.

But also the question raised of things like allowing other empires to build embassies or outposts on your planets is something I think should somehow be put in also. Allowing an ally to establish a embassy or even a small military outpost to work in junction with yours would be interesting.
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