2017-09-25 Tech Level Nerf

Details about updates to Shores of Hazeron

Re: 2017-09-25 Tech Level Nerf

Postby Mr. Mortius » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:36 pm

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Re: 2017-09-25 Tech Level Nerf

Postby Deantwo » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:24 pm

1Duane wrote:...
Why is a stupid question when 'Why not' covers the entire rest of the game.

I am sorry, I actually thought you know something about Hazeron before you started making suggestions. When I said that quality doesn't matter for anything but spacecraft, I mean that none of the other things require you to have high quality, they just benefit from it.

Quality of resources and commodities do make a difference. Most notably is the waste factor, every time a production or construction process fetches materials there is a chance that the material will be discarded if it fails a quality check. This means that mining Q1 ore will be the worst and slowest harvesting you can ever do, even worse is that it is actually mined without issue but just fills up your storage, then only once the smelter fetches it is it possible that it is wasted. This alone makes quality matter a lot, and is actually the main issue right now with the new update because everything is suddenly low quality.

Quality of a commodity determines how long it will last and in some cases improve the commodity's use. A tool might break when used by an avatar or by a city, high quality tools have more durability and therefore last longer. High quality medical kits give more health and last longer. Higher quality vehicles have more health. Higher quality food satisfies more hunger and also feeds more of a city's population per unit of food.

Spacecraft however require you to have high enough quality to build the specific spacecraft design depending on its size. Bigger spacecraft require higher quality resources.
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Re: 2017-09-25 Tech Level Nerf

Postby Deantwo » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:52 pm

1Duane wrote:
AnrDaemon wrote:The very "scaling" is broken in principle.
Remove "scaling", and there's no longer any "best" option, only "variety".

Add scaling and balance around it and you have a "game". It's broken in principle because the systems that would exist around scaling only exist in your mind, and you don't want it, so obviously it's imbalanced. It's easy to add in ways that aren't broken, and easier to balance if it is broken.

Playing rock-paper-scissors is no fun if the person that played a few more rounds than you wins by default. Not because he has a 4th hand that can beat the original three, but just any option he picks is just better.

It is much much easier to make game balance if you don't have to worry about scaling, even more so in an MMO where some players have played a lot longer than others and there is no intention of REBOOTING the game every year.

If there is no scaling in Hazeron, only your spacecraft's size and your choice of weapon/armor/shield will matter. This allows for rock-paper-scissors style choices if we assume the spacecraft sizes are always somewhat equal. Maybe one suit of power armor is good against energy weapons, another against projectile weapons. Then advanced empires won't just be better, they just have more choices to make.
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Re: 2017-09-25 Tech Level Nerf

Postby AnrDaemon » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:33 pm

1Duane wrote:
AnrDaemon wrote:The very "scaling" is broken in principle.


Add scaling

Why adding a fundamentally broken idea?
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Re: 2017-09-25 Tech Level Nerf

Postby Phenoix12 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:56 pm

I'm just going to shamelessly plug this old idea thread of mine about how when we get to the point where we can design guns and stuff that it be nice if we could set stats for them... the thread mostly jsut talks about guns (also makes reference to the now dead TL system) but I think that the basic idea might be relevent to this conversation.

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http://hazeron.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8916
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Re: 2017-09-25 Tech Level Nerf

Postby Haxus » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:52 pm

Should universities be the only building that researches patents? I know in the "real world" that is not the case. However, it would restore the role of universities as centers of research.

Btw, I forgot to mention that universities can research any patent, regardless of other buildings in town. Previously, they could only research a tech if the corresponding industry was in town.
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Re: 2017-09-25 Tech Level Nerf

Postby Haxus » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:58 pm

After building a city for a while, my assessment is that the Q of money should not be calculated into the Q of the result when researching a patent. It brings up the patent Q far too quickly.

I am also leaning heavily in favor of removing the patent development processes from all buildings except the university.
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Re: 2017-09-25 Tech Level Nerf

Postby Ikkir Isth » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:06 pm

Haxus wrote:
I am also leaning heavily in favor of removing the patent development processes from all buildings except the university.


Definitely. All the process on the other buildings just cause visual garbage.
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Re: 2017-09-25 Tech Level Nerf

Postby Deantwo » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:15 am

Haxus wrote:After building a city for a while, my assessment is that the Q of money should not be calculated into the Q of the result when researching a patent. It brings up the patent Q far too quickly.

Why does money and electricity even have a quality? wouldn't it be worth it to allow null quality?
I guess having to check if the value is null every time would be an issue/annoyance though.

I guess another way of doing it is change them to not be commodities at all. But that is likely even more work.

Ikkir Isth wrote:
Haxus wrote:I am also leaning heavily in favor of removing the patent development processes from all buildings except the university.

Definitely. All the process on the other buildings just cause visual garbage.

Totally agree.

Maybe also remove the "get/record patent" options from non-universes. They kinda fill up all windows.
By the way, give the "Get" and "Record..." buttons a fixed width so we can actually see the dropdown list without making the window huge.

What happens if I sell a patent to a city?
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Re: 2017-09-25 Tech Level Nerf

Postby AnrDaemon » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:58 am

Deantwo wrote:By the way, give the "Get" and "Record..." buttons

Just remove these buttons. They are unnecessary. University exists in any city, you can always order a new patent job if needed.
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