Update 2017-03-14 Trade Between Systems

Details about updates to Shores of Hazeron

Re: Update 2017-03-14 Trade Between Systems

Postby the Lana » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:23 am

Image

"Majesty! The latest TL 10 harvester design has been corrupted! It's reading as a station for some reason!"

"Well DAMN, I guess we're making stations from now on!" :D

For those of you using Dropbox to host images, you will lose that functionality today, if rumors are true. I probably won't update all my old images, since I've been updating my designs anyway, but I'll probably see about starting a new designer pics thread? No? No…not that.

How far does the "stations spawn at random orientations to the planet" thing go? are they pretty much still going to be facing "downward" as they did in the past, within, say 30 degrees of upright? Because that would be awesome, esp for designs that have engine effects.

Also, will the ships generated by broker shipments be able to be interacted with? Like can players pirate the shipments?

#errybodysgonnausemydesignsbecauseminearethebest
Last edited by the Lana on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just Lana :)
User avatar
the Lana
 
Posts: 348
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:23 am

Re: Update 2017-03-14 Trade Between Systems

Postby Deantwo » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:28 am

the Lana wrote:"Majesty! The latest TL 10 harvester design has been corrupted! It's reading as a station for some reason!"

"Well DAMN, I guess we're making stations from now on!" :D

As Haxus said in the other thread, the new designer doesn't assume anything, you have to tell it what it is.
The "Structure" dropdown list has the options: Station, Spaceship, Starship. I believe Station is selected by default.
I invalidate your reality and wait for it to be refreshed.
User avatar
Deantwo
 
Posts: 4777
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:38 am
Location: Rævehale

Re: Update 2017-03-14 Trade Between Systems

Postby the Lana » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:30 am

Deantwo wrote:As Haxus said in the other thread, the new designer doesn't assume anything, you have to tell it what it is.
The "Structure" dropdown list has the options: Station, Spaceship, Starship. I believe Station is selected by default.


*longsigh* Sweetie…that was a joke, attempting to create an in-universe explanation for why I'm having to make station designs out of my harvesters.

EDIT: Y'know, when I first read the update, my first thought was "OMG WTF IS HE DOING HE'S KILLING ME" but then I realized…I don't have a military anyway, what do I care?

It LOOKS like this is going to make it harder for a single human to conquer another single human? It seems to drastically shift the balance of power to the defense?
Just Lana :)
User avatar
the Lana
 
Posts: 348
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:23 am

Re: Update 2017-03-14 Trade Between Systems

Postby Celarious » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:10 pm

Thor wrote:Wow!

Haxus wrote:My vision for this game was to have it play out much more intimately, like an episode of Star Trek. I imagined players occupying a ship they called their own, perhaps upgrading it over time, as they pursue science fiction adventures.


Please tell me where these adventures are. You probably aren't aware because you're busy working on the game. But the game has very little actual content and now....now you want to take a chainsaw and cut 3/4 of the content that is there.

Image

The only thing to do in this game is build an empire from the ground up, build ships and run an empire. That's it! Removing officers just introduce even more tedium into the game as a player has to do everything.

So now if a 2 man empire ever goes to war with a 3 man empire, the 2 man team might as well give up because their opponents can field 3 ships while they can only field 2.


"Removing officers just introduce even more tedium into the game as a player has to do everything."

Where's the logic here? Having to produce extremely complicated and annoying trade lines which break due to ships sundiving at least 5 times per day and might not even work most of the time is less tedious than an automated system where the city does it for you? Having that old MASSIVE barrier to entry as Staines mentioned, which not only confused new players, but extremely discouraged interstellar trade is less tedious than having the city automatically do it for you?

Also, you mentioned "the only thing to do in the game".

That's what you like to do in the game. Don't tell other people how to play, or what they should be doing in the game. Don't base your accusations of "3/4 of the content" when the content is entirely dependant on what the player likes to do. As an example, I like to explore and find ringworlds, and find interesting planet generations. I do not like to fight or perform any kind of PVP. This is a massive contrast to how all of Syndicate like to play. I know a few of my friends who also play like I do. This proves that the "3/4 of content" you've mentioned is only for you. If you don't like this update that much, then leave.

Again, how does the old system of setting up extremely complicated routes with buggy AI seem less tedious than this new system? Would you rather have that old system which discouraged new players from even starting and produces massive load on the servers than this new system? Even when just about everybody else says this new system is at least somewhat decent? Would you rather have the servers shut down again because they've being constantly overloaded by your demands of play method?
Image
User avatar
Celarious
 
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:20 pm
Location: EVA

Re: Update 2017-03-14 Trade Between Systems

Postby xlc2020 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:31 pm

Just remember, by removing the need for traders you're already removing most of the officer load on the servers. Is there a need to go further? I personally enjoy having my officers pick up colony materials withot babysitting them, and also having them loop a sell order when they've landed at the new colony. The proposed officer changes would make this significantly more tedious.
xlc2020
 
Posts: 1722
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:27 am

Re: Update 2017-03-14 Trade Between Systems

Postby Ikkir Isth » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:34 pm

More or less, I hope that the trade lines with spawning merchants is the start of a long trend of generated content based on empire decisions (rather than having to set up everything yourself) that results in not only traders being generated, but civilian ships, police, and even military patrols based on empire policy decisions; such that load mostly only happens where players actually are while letting players still manage a large empire.
Making things with OpenGL: Image
Working on- an exploration game.
@Ikkir_Isth
User avatar
Ikkir Isth
 
Posts: 2322
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:22 pm

Re: Update 2017-03-14 Trade Between Systems

Postby Haxus » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:00 pm

Ikkir Isth wrote:such that load mostly only happens where players actually are

Yes.

Like having townspeople spawn near you, instead of randomly at buildings all over town where you might occasionally notice one.

xlc2020 wrote:Is there a need to go further?

I am not going to rush the changes to nerf officers. I would prefer to see if their numbers drop, now that they can be replaced with nice reliable trade routes.

So far, there's 6 less officers than yesterday. That's a 1% drop from 610.
User avatar
Haxus
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2619
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:00 pm

Re: Update 2017-03-14 Trade Between Systems

Postby xlc2020 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:36 pm

I haven't scrapped my trade fleet yet. I will do so after setting up my broker network. The officer count will probably decrease significantly soon. Also, Foxtail has many officers idling with no orders as berthaport stops, so that probably takes up a chunk of the officer count. I will send the self destruct orders to my traders later today if this metric is how you're determining whether to axe officers. I personally think they are a vital part of this game, for playability among other reasons.

There has never been a time since my first character in 2011 that I didn't rely heavily on my trusty officer to help scout out and build my systems. I would hate to see him lobotomized.
xlc2020
 
Posts: 1722
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:27 am

Re: Update 2017-03-14 Trade Between Systems

Postby Vectorus » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:46 pm

Ikkir Isth wrote:More or less, I hope that the trade lines with spawning merchants is the start of a long trend of generated content based on empire decisions


Surely this is the way to go. I know it's a fundamental selling point of Hazeron that there is as little abstraction as possible: that you can actually go and see everything being done at the most minute level. But where that same immersion can be achieved at a lesser cost, e.g. citizens which spawn only near you, what's to lose?

Reducing the number of ships by nerfing officers may seem as if the universe is shrinking, but in the long term it may mean that players end up actually encountering more ships: just trade ships to start with, but eventually perhaps civilians, patrols and so on as Ikkir suggests. Good balance of system transition mechanics and clever use of them by players, together with officers' remaining ability to interact by comm, could even allow for small squadron actions of the Star Trek kind - which may mean may in turn play out more smoothly now that server load is being reduced in other areas. Good stuff.

Do agree xlc2020, though - we should see what the broker mechanics do before deciding how much further we need to go.

Would be interested to know if Ben Buske has any memories of how Starquest Online handled this stuff. It always seemed to me to be quite a lively universe, even though the playerbase wasn't much bigger than ours and I don't think there was much automation/abstraction of anything. (I believe Starmade now has some quite sophisticated abstraction for fleets and their operations in systems distant from the player?)
User avatar
Vectorus
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:21 am

Re: Update 2017-03-14 Trade Between Systems

Postby Deantwo » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:46 pm

xlc2020 wrote:I haven't scrapped my trade fleet yet. I will do so after setting up my broker network. The officer count will probably decrease significantly soon. Also, Foxtail has many officers idling with no orders as berthaport stops, so that probably takes up a chunk of the officer count.

I have been setting up a few broker shipments, seems simple but will likely take a while to find an optimal setting. Maybe some more dynamic shipment size would be useful, like "fill as much as possible" in that hour before the transport takes off?

A new way of getting around and possibly even long distance transportation to replace berth-a-porting would be interesting. Have posted a new ideas in the past, I am sure others have posted more.
See: (Idea thread) Airport Flight Paths
And: (Idea post) Re: Stargates- My two pence
I invalidate your reality and wait for it to be refreshed.
User avatar
Deantwo
 
Posts: 4777
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:38 am
Location: Rævehale

PreviousNext

Return to Updates

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest