Update 2017-03-09 FTL Drive and Warp Drives

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Re: Update 2017-03-09 FTL Drive and Warp Drives

Postby Onepercent » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:36 am

it would be cool if the warp was more affected by more gravitational bodies, i.e. each planet or moon should have an effective warp inhibition radius, the star should also have an effect but not as extreme like before, say, within the closest typical planetary orbit radius.

Warp should also be affected by other objects. A ship or station should have an effective warp inhibition radius, where it either slows down the warp speed in a gradual transition or instantaneous, I'm more inclined to like instantaneous, as in most science fiction that I love which has this form of FTL travel they depict the cliche instant exit of FTL to STL travel.

To add to what staines mentioned; In order to suggest some form of warp interdiction system, then you would need to be able to detect such ships travelling in warp correct? Because this wouldn't work in the current instancing system, if this reads correctly, once you warp from system A to system B, you only physically leave system A once you've arrived at system B within a sector.

Haxus, As a suggestion, if you would like to delve into these topics further I suggest implement it so that you enter a loading screen FROM system A into a sub "Sector" Scene, where all interaction with other entities are possible, And then enter a loading screen once system B has been reached. The game will know when system B has been reached by the ship once it has physically reached the coordinates it has been tasked to do by the player.
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Re: Update 2017-03-09 FTL Drive and Warp Drives

Postby Edward Teach » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:27 am

I think the changes to warp travel are good concerning AI travel. The fewer steps/complications in system arrival and departure the better. Once our helmsmen are back on their medication with a healthy love of life we should be set.

I don't think anyone who has participated in a lot of pvp would disagree that detecting ships hiding at random coordinates in a sector was VERY difficult if not practically impossible. Using that as a reason to remove the huge conveniences the update has provided seems like a poor argument. What we really need with or without the most recent update is a different detection system for ships in the surrounding systems/sectors. Perhaps you could receive a detection message under certain circumstances if a ship was within a certain distance from one of your cities or ships but not loaded in that specific instance.

As far as the interdiction idea I think something like that would be really cool. Would it stop them from using FTL when trying to leave or on arrival as well? Would it be mounted on a ship/station or would it be planet-based? So many possibilities.
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Re: Update 2017-03-09 FTL Drive and Warp Drives

Postby Onepercent » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:47 am

Then just change the scene change to only once per 3x3x3 sectors? (The game already renders a 3x3x3 physical skybox around the player) So in theory, if you travel 5 sectors distance between stars A and B, you only have 3 loading screens, 1 loading screen to enter warp, 1 loading screen to transfer scene change to next 3x3x3 sectors once you passed the 3rd sector and 1 final loading screen to enter destination system.

I Don't see how this removes the conveniences of the new warp implementations, in fact it even makes it MORE convenient as there are less loading screens total, for the current new implementation, you would need 5 loading screens to travel the same distance, as it's 1 loading screen per sector boundary plus the final scene change to the destination system.

So by adding a second layer to the galaxy in terms of scene change you could halve the total amount of loading screens required.

I think it would be interesting to make an illustration of this.
Last edited by Onepercent on Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Update 2017-03-09 FTL Drive and Warp Drives

Postby Deantwo » Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:08 am

I doubt it would be possible to change warp to have fewer transition points than now. There has always been a transition between sectors, so I am guessing that that wouldn't be possible to change unless whole warp travel gets a private instance with a lame tunnel effect.

Some kind of interdiction/FTL-inhibitor would be nice for combat yeah, mostly just to prevent an enemy from escaping though. I am not sure violently forcing someone out of warp would be very reliable or easy to do.

As for hiding, I don't know if we need an insensitive to make people hide ships on planets. It would likely fix itself once we get a more reliable deep space detection system. But it is a hell of a lot easier to search planets than it is deep space.
See: (Suggestion thread) Hiding Ships in Gas Giants
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Re: Update 2017-03-09 FTL Drive and Warp Drives

Postby Onepercent » Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:12 am

An instance or scene doesn't need to be a "lame tunnel effect" deantwo it can be whatever you want it to be so long as there's a loading screen transitioning into that scene, don't confuse scene changing in deep space as the whole thing isns't a loading screen, it totally can be a seperate instance with its own rules and parameters.

Image

As you can see, 3x3x3 sector stars and their positions are already rendered, even though their planets and any physical bodies aren't present, their x,y,z and star graphic are real, so you can treat this as a seperate "deep space/uncharted territory" instance.

mind the quick paint work.
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Re: Update 2017-03-09 FTL Drive and Warp Drives

Postby jakbruce2012 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:32 pm

Deantwo wrote:I doubt it would be possible to change warp to have fewer transition points than now. There has always been a transition between sectors, so I am guessing that that wouldn't be possible to change unless whole warp travel gets a private instance with a lame tunnel effect.

Some kind of interdiction/FTL-inhibitor would be nice for combat yeah, mostly just to prevent an enemy from escaping though. I am not sure violently forcing someone out of warp would be very reliable or easy to do.

As for hiding, I don't know if we need an insensitive to make people hide ships on planets. It would likely fix itself once we get a more reliable deep space detection system. But it is a hell of a lot easier to search planets than it is deep space.
See: (Suggestion thread) Hiding Ships in Gas Giants



There was one time I traveled 400 sectors with no loading screens at all, that was due to a bug however, and I was unable to leave the system. The coordinates did however show I would be 400 sectors away.
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Re: Update 2017-03-09 FTL Drive and Warp Drives

Postby the Lana » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:43 pm

the Lana wrote:http://hazeron.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9036

Any word on interior turrets?

ALSO, will the systems that are "warped through" count as being visited by a human player for the porpoises of "dark matter" and officers following orders to go there?
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Re: Update 2017-03-09 FTL Drive and Warp Drives

Postby Edward Teach » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:32 pm

the Lana wrote:
the Lana wrote:http://hazeron.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9036

Any word on interior turrets?

ALSO, will the systems that are "warped through" count as being visited by a human player for the porpoises of "dark matter" and officers following orders to go there?
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Re: Update 2017-03-09 FTL Drive and Warp Drives

Postby Ikkir Isth » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:24 pm

If any change is made, it would be, more than likely, to make all sector transitions seamless (or effectively seamless at least, via player experience). Just making the transition be 3 sectors isn't really effectively that different (and in fact may be worthless to code)

Things that need updated on the client as it transitions from Sector to Sector->
Star map data; namely nearby sectors.
-> This would need to be done by doing a slow update of starmap data instead of the full upfront load on scene
Local nav system data from star map
-> Putting that info into the ships nav system as you go
Said transitions could be predictive as well, based on travel speed and direction: a queue could start downloading information up to a minute before actual transition takes place, and then start actually implementing it once you are properly in the next sector over.

Potential needs-> Sector object data, if Sector truly becomes its own scene (which would potentially include ships).

And then theres actual player movement and other things-> In order to keep player experience uninterrupted, movements of the player (and ship) need to be more or less contiguous (Chat, at least, already is). More or less what I think will happen on sector transition is you need another Star System to grab the player data, and then that player is effectively hosted in that System for that Sector journey. This means you more or less need to send ship and entire ship contents to the new System, predict ship movement, and stop hosting the ship/players in the old system... while continuously sending in movement corrections up until the final handoff takes place and the player is saved in the new system. This would give the overall best experience... but definitely isn't trivial to do (and imo warps control while going so fast would have to be very low so it could more accurately predict journey across a straight line, or you are going to get some crazy corner cases)
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Re: Update 2017-03-09 FTL Drive and Warp Drives

Postby Onepercent » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:12 am

I was basing my proposal on the 3 sector range we currently have that the game engine "knows" exists around a player (like what the game sees in the nav console), You make it sound even more flexible, sounds like a large amount of work to do though, it makes me wonder what haxus' stance is on it.
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