2016-12-03 Designer Status w/Pics

Details about updates to Shores of Hazeron

2016-12-03 Designer Status w/Pics

Postby Haxus » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:38 pm

It's been a long slog to get to this point. An enormous amount of stuff is working in the new designer. I feel like I am on the downhill side of this thing. The functions for creating/manipulating geometry are almost complete. Then I'll be ready to move on to texturing, possibly some time this week. That is when things will really start to pop.

A quick tally of new lines of code comes in just under 50,000. At 40 lines per printed page, that would produce a 1,250 page book.

Here are some screen shots. I suppose I could have spent more than five minutes on the model. You'll have to use your imagination a bit, particularly since there is no texturing at all.
Features to notice in those images:
  • Hull thickness. No more paper thin walls. They can be as thick as you want. The same goes for floors.
  • Interior rooms. Draw them wherever you want inside a hull. Connect them to each other and to the outside with doors and windows.
  • Transparent windows. Windows can also be translucent/decorative; those kind light up due to internal lighting conditions but they don't have anything behind them, to create a facade of lit windows.
  • Door and window shapes. The door and windows were created using a thing called a jig. You create the jig by drawing the shape of the door or window. That creates an extrusion of that shape that you can move around and cut doors and windows with. A door jig creates a door from the stuff that gets cut out. A window jig creates panes of glass.
  • Animated doors. By default, doors simply disappear when opened. However, you have the option of creating geometry for many states of a door, including 9 intermediate states between closed and open (closed, 10%, ..., 90%, open). The door could become a stairs or ramp, as depicted in these pictures. It could deploy a ladder, have hydraulic lift arms, etc. Landing gear are implemented in the same way. Turbo lifts are similar, where each state is a destination for the lift. Turbo lifts differ in that they contain a door jig, useful for cutting the door at each destination.
  • Smoothing. A trivial thing but worth noting since the old ships never smoothed their vertexes. You can smooth or flatten any vertex of any face.
  • Part manager shows a list of the parts in the design. Names of rooms can be changed. Visibility can be turned on/off. Parts can be locked to prevent accidental editing. Parts can be omitted so they are not considered to be part of the design. States can be added and changed to doors, landing gear and turbo lifts.
  • Bounding box, seen as a yellow frame around the work area. It can be toggled between the maximum size hull allowed and the maximum size that can be built on the ground. It is a visual guide and does not present a hard limit to designing anything. The maximum size limit is currently 1,600m in each dimension (-800m to 800m).
The length of an Imperial Star Destroyer is 1,600m. The Death Star is 100 times as big; that's too big. The USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-D) is 642.5m. The smallest moon in SoH is 1,894m diameter. The standard parking altitude above an atmosphere for NPCs is about 1,500m. The designer would encounter numeric precision errors with values in excess of 3,048,000,000m from the origin.

I drew out the basic hull shape of an Imperial Star Destroyer just to take a look at it. That's a big ship. Too large of ships present all kinds of problems, besides dwarfing nearby worlds and making the game scale look wrong. I am wondering what the fuel consumption of an Imperial Star Destroyer sized ship in SoH would be. That may present a soft limit of its own. How long would it take to build a ship the size of the Death Star? Generations?

I don't prefer arbitrary limits; that's why I started big. We'll have to see how this works out.

I am not ready to post an early preview of the designer, perhaps at the end of this week or next. I'll go out on a limb and predict these new ships will be operating in SoH by the end of January. Saying that brings to mind a comment someone once made about the sound of deadlines whooshing past.

Buildings will follow closely behind spoacecraft. They don't require development of a new designer. They will simply be a rehash of existing designer features. I expect buildings to be upgraded relatively quickly compared to spacecraft.
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Re: 2016-12-03 Designer Status w/Pics

Postby Jorn Stones » Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:15 pm

Would a much larger ship; in this case a 1600m long star destroyer as opposed to a 200m long one, not also vastly increase its volume and mass? I'm not sure if maximum mass is still tied to TL in the new designer, but if it is not, that surely would be interesting. And super large ships would be completely impractical for landing on planets, that is for certain. But with their size, they could easily accommodate a hangar for medium-sized ships to do so instead.


And I'm loving what you did with those doors.
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Re: 2016-12-03 Designer Status w/Pics

Postby Haxus » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:26 pm

I am working on turrets today. They are composed of two pieces, a base and a gun. The base swivels around an axis. The gun elevates on its own axis. You can restrict the movement arc of either. This action allows for a great deal of freedom to design the actual appearance.

The turret also specifies the gunner position, which could be anywhere in the ship. The gunner's view will move to the gun when they operate it.

No more sneaking aboard using the gun turret exploit.

This will also work well for designing tanks.
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Re: 2016-12-03 Designer Status w/Pics

Postby Ikkir Isth » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:27 pm

If you want to create soft limits, you can do so in a number of ways:

Exponential time increase past certain sizes for simple ship construction.
Exponential part requirement / maintenance requirements.
Requirement of stations with a minimum frame size for dry dock (or minimum construction module sizes for ships of X size). Potentially make it so you have to upgrade station/sizes incrementally as well using the same method so you need to invest in a ship yard to produce large ships.
Requirement to hire special, limited npcs to actively construct ships past a certain size (limit by empire size and require more for larger ships)
Module effectiveness decrease for lower size-rating modules, requiring bigger things / much more module construction investment, which can have similar exponential ratings.
Making things with OpenGL: Image
Working on- an exploration game.
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Re: 2016-12-03 Designer Status w/Pics

Postby Paladin » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:51 pm

Haxus wrote:No more sneaking aboard using the gun turret exploit.


hmmm

Gonna miss that part somewhat i guess, but its an annoyance getting your ship boarded that way. But in the later years it have improved a lot, i remember when i joined up on Hazeron all you usually needed to do was to get close to that turret and "E", voila! Boarding party Hello!
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Re: 2016-12-03 Designer Status w/Pics

Postby Jorn Stones » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:14 pm

Paladin wrote:
Haxus wrote:No more sneaking aboard using the gun turret exploit.


hmmm

Gonna miss that part somewhat i guess, but its an annoyance getting your ship boarded that way. But in the later years it have improved a lot, i remember when i joined up on Hazeron all you usually needed to do was to get close to that turret and "E", voila! Boarding party Hello!



I must counter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs

Good to see that boarding exploit killed once and for all. Wonder if there will also be measures taken so that the exploity anti-boarding measures are killed; such as having 2 single tiles next to eachother, one with a bed, one with a console, that is completely unreachable except with transporters.
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Re: 2016-12-03 Designer Status w/Pics

Postby Deantwo » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:22 pm

Looking awesome Haxus! Very much looking forward to see how it will play once we can tinker with it.
I just need to figure out a new design therm for my empire's designs I guess, the old one won't be as nice.

Haxus wrote:I am working on turrets today. They are composed of two pieces, a base and a gun. The base swivels around an axis. The gun elevates on its own axis. You can restrict the movement arc of either. This action allows for a great deal of freedom to design the actual appearance.

The turret also specifies the gunner position, which could be anywhere in the ship. The gunner's view will move to the gun when they operate it.

I had been wishing for this recently too! No more silly troops seeing in little glass bubbles with a gun. Now we will be able to make large rooms with space invader arcade consoles!

Still kinda wishing for weapon bays and harvester bays to be separated thought, so we can have troops manning the weapons? I don't know.
Topic: (Suggestion thread) Separate Harvester and Weapon Bay

Haxus wrote:This will also work well for designing tanks.

TANKS! Oh and battleships?
Firing at spacecrafts in orbit from the ground would be awesome.
Another shameless reference: (Idea thread) Active City Defense
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Re: 2016-12-03 Designer Status w/Pics

Postby Lexx » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:30 pm

Haxus wrote:I am working on turrets today. They are composed of two pieces, a base and a gun. The base swivels around an axis. The gun elevates on its own axis. You can restrict the movement arc of either. This action allows for a great deal of freedom to design the actual appearance.

The turret also specifies the gunner position, which could be anywhere in the ship. The gunner's view will move to the gun when they operate it.

No more sneaking aboard using the gun turret exploit.

This will also work well for designing tanks.


Will turrets be able to have firing animations such as ejecting casings and chambering rounds? Or perhaps rotating barrels for Gatling guns?
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Re: 2016-12-03 Designer Status w/Pics

Postby Phenoix12 » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:45 pm

I do hope, because it would be silly if we couldn't, we can color and add differnt textures to our designs. Because you know there's someone out there who wants to clad his ship in brass and mahogany. And someone who wants to cover his ship in gold, white marble, gargoyles, and stained glass windows. And someone who wants to make giant organic looking alien ships.

With this new editor all these shapes would be possible... so I do hope that the abilities to set up color and textures of sections of the ship is in. I assume so. I'm just so hype to see pictures of finished ships.
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Re: 2016-12-03 Designer Status w/Pics

Postby Deantwo » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:52 pm

Is it weird if i am also kinda hyped about how building designs will be?
I like the current buildings ok I guess, but there are still weird things about them. Such as how levels (for most buildings) add floors, it was a cool idea for old buildings, but when we design them ourselves it is hard to make that look good.

Current buildings also have a bigger issue of unused rooms than spacecraft ever did. I can design a 64 floor skyscraper, but all the floors are empty and meaningless. I would rather make a turbo lift and have a few nice floors.
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